State of the United Front Against MAGA, with Loan Tran

This transcript was automatically generated and may contain minor errors.

[00:00:00] Cayden Mak: Welcome to Block and Build, a podcast from Convergence magazine. I’m your host and the publisher of Convergence, Kayden Mock. On this show we are building a roadmap for the movement that’s working to block the ascent of [00:00:30] authoritarianism while building the influence of a genuinely progressive trend in the broad front that we need to win.

[00:00:35] Before we get started, I want to invite you to join our subscriber program. Convergence Magazine is an independent publication that relies on the generosity of our readers and listeners to create the rigorous, thoughtful takes that you’ve come to expect from us week in and week out. You can become a subscriber at convergencemag.

[00:00:51] com slash donate. Any amount helps either as a one time donation or a recurring monthly or annual subscription. We are, of course, just a few days out from [00:01:00] election day, which means we’ve got a lot to get to this week. First, we’ll hear from President and CEO of Colón Latina, Dusty Garul, on the work done, and that has still yet to be done, to pass Amendment 79 in Colorado.

[00:01:11] Which would enshrine abortion rights in the state’s constitution. Then, I’m pleased to welcome National Director of Rising Majority, Loan Tran, back for one final check in on the state of the United Front against MAGA as we go into election week. But first, some final pre election headlines. Philadelphia District Attorney Larry Krasner is [00:01:30] building a is bringing a suit against Elon Musk for his 1 million voter giveaway stunt in the state.

[00:01:35] And I’m grateful that there’s someone out there who’s going after this kind of sketchy behavior in real time. It’s a real reminder that having governing power really does matter, especially in this broader environment of corporate oligarchy and unfettered wealth inequality. Headlines, even ours, often throw a relentless spotlight on encroaching fascism and ongoing genocide, but they don’t often tell us about the tens of thousands of people who are [00:02:00] working their hearts out to block MAGA one door, one call, and one text at a time.

[00:02:05] At the beginning of this week, we heard from the Working Families Party that they have knocked 1. 1 million doors and had 209, 000 conversations. Surge Action has fielded 2, 300 volunteers who have knocked 1. 4 million doors and had 47, 000 conversations with white voters in key districts in battleground states.

[00:02:24] People’s Action Power has made 2. 49 million calls and door knocks in its deep canvassing program and Seed [00:02:30] the Vote has fielded more than 5, 000 volunteers and they are on pace to hit nearly a quarter million doors in this last week before the election. This isn’t even taking into account other community organizing networks and the massive efforts put out by unions like Unite Here and the AFL CIO’s community affiliate Working America.

[00:02:51] Now is the time to get out the fucking vote. If you have the time and energy, there is surely an organization facilitating ways that you can pitch in, in this last [00:03:00] push, either on the doors or via phone or text from the comfort of your own home. If you’re feeling fired up, we’ll link to a great roundup of vetted strategic organizations who have a place for you to plug in between now and election day via the Movement Voter Project in the show notes.

[00:03:15] And now let’s look at Colorado. Uh, Colorado is one of ten states where reproductive rights are on the ballot next week. In some of these states, such as Florida, Arizona, and Missouri, voters will have a chance to overturn existing abortion bans imposed by minority [00:03:30] rule. In other states, like Colorado, voters will have the chance to secure and deepen reproductive rights.

[00:03:36] If passed, Colorado’s Amendment 79 will enshrine the right to abortion in the State’s constitution. It’ll also remove barriers to care by Repe. Repealing the ban on paying for abortions with public funds, opening access for government workers and Medicaid users. In this interview, president and CEO of color, Latina and the co-chair of Coloradans for Reproductive Freedom, dusty Guru discusses the organizing behind [00:04:00] Amendment 79 with convergence editorial board member Sandra Hansen.

[00:04:08] Sandra Hinson: Dusty for joining us. I’m Sandra Henson. I’m with the Convergence Magazine’s editorial board. And I’m delighted that we’re able to have this more in depth conversation with you today. So tell us a little bit about yourself. 

[00:04:23] Dusti Gurule: I’m very excited to be having this conversation with you all. So I’m Dusty Gurule.

[00:04:28] I’m a Denver native, grew up [00:04:30] in the Chicano movement here in Denver. And since college have been engaged in community development, working with young people, activism, advocacy. And in 2003, I worked for Collor for almost two years. I was the first paid staff person because up to that point, it was all volunteer, um, led by the board of directors.

[00:04:52] And then I came back as the ED, now president CEO, uh, seven years ago. So this month is my [00:05:00] seven year anniversary back at Collor and have always had a passion for, uh, Social justice and civic engagement and reproductive autonomy and self determination. So coming back to Colloid is like my political home.

[00:05:16] So in 2022, we, along with one of our partners, passed the Reproductive Health Equity Act in our legislature, which affirms the right to abortion in our state statute. In addition to a few other things. [00:05:30] And so we knew then we sort of were ahead of the curve there, but that’s when we started actively working to put the measure on this year’s ballot to affirm the right in the in our state’s constitution.

[00:05:42] And. To remove any barriers to that care. And so for us, again, access is key because it’s not just about legality for our communities. 

[00:05:53] Sandra Hinson: So we’ll get more into your work with Colour and how you are promoting [00:06:00] reproductive justice and using that frame to make connections across issues. We wanted to start, though, with a more broad focus on what is happening nationally.

[00:06:13] There’s so much going on, two plus years since Dobbs, with more than a dozen states having had official ballot initiatives, a bunch coming up this November. And one of those states being Colorado. And also that reproductive. [00:06:30] Rights and even contraception are being talked about in a big way during this, uh, presidential election.

[00:06:38] What stands out for you about this moment and what does it all suggest to you about organizing for reproductive justice and social justice more broadly? 

[00:06:49] Dusti Gurule: I think, um, this issue has always been a critical issue for Latinas and other communities of color. Our history, there are many years of [00:07:00] history of institutional racism targeting women of color and people who are pregnant.

[00:07:06] And so this work for us has really been about continuing to protect and expand care, right? So when dogs. in 2022, it sort of put the spotlight, I think, on the issue because, you know, the legality of, which is for us, the floor, not the ceiling was removed. And so it was sort of all [00:07:30] hands on deck. Um, and so that’s how we got to amendment 79.

[00:07:35] And I think since then with the advocacy and the. social justice work that has been happening in communities, not just in Colorado, but throughout the country since 2020 and the Black Lives Matter movement and, um, the sort of organize organizing in the face of an opposition of like the white supremacy that we [00:08:00] are all facing.

[00:08:01] So it’s a very comprehensive approach that we take to community building. And I think that’s important. The role that we play as the only. reproductive justice organization within our reproductive rights, health and justice coalition again, because we remind the sort of other players that it’s not just about abortion and that you can’t just have a single, um, approach to change to systems change and you can’t just [00:08:30] focus on the systems.

[00:08:30] You have to bring community with you. And so we do a lot of Community education. Um, and since our work within the Reproductive Rights, Health and Justice Coalition, a lot of our work has focused at our state legislature and also a lot of the conversation and work that we’ve been doing. Colloid specifically has been working with different state institutions.

[00:08:51] So like the division of insurance, our state Medicaid office, the, our state department of public health, because [00:09:00] we know and understand again, how important these things are, how related they are. But that abortion care is healthcare and it shouldn’t be looked at any differently than, um, someone who needs a checkup or has a cold or, so, the work that we’ve been doing over the last few years has really, it’s beautiful to see it in fruition and to see all of the people, individuals who’ve endorsed, all the organizations who’ve endorsed, including labor.

[00:09:28] Yeah, it’s great to [00:09:30] see everything come together. 

[00:09:32] Sandra Hinson: Yes, that’s a good segue to my next question, which is what are your expectations that this amendment will help drive turnout? I’ve no, I noted that you said the ballot is going to be huge. It’s going to have a lot of stuff on it. Hopefully, all that stuff.

[00:09:51] Get gets voters even more interested in participating, and that all of this also helps you build a stronger movement ecosystem for [00:10:00] the fights ahead. But specifically, how are you thinking about this amendment driving turnout? 

[00:10:09] Dusti Gurule: We know our communities is excited to vote in the election. We know that 61 percent of those that we pulled in this year’s election are going to vote yes on 79.

[00:10:21] And so we know the excitement’s there. We know our community is with us. We know the African American community is with us. Um, back to the ballot, [00:10:30] there’s 13 questions on it. So amendments and propositions, but we co load action fund partnered with one of our partners, the working families party. And we created a racial justice ballot guide.

[00:10:45] And so we listed all of the propositions and the amendments. And our progressive edgy sort of a description of each and so we are going to be pushing that out or [00:11:00] spend investing cold action fund. This is the most money we’ve ever invested in an election. And so we Um, are sending mail with them to, you know, help people connect to their local elected officials to turn out voters.

[00:11:14] But then our ballot guide, we are printing copies. We’re doing a big party next Thursday, inviting community to bring their ballots. If they want to, you know, look, use our guide as a, as a guide, a guide, a guide, um, to fill out their [00:11:30] ballot. And we’re also again, doing investing. thousands of dollars to push it out digitally and targeting specific areas in the state where there are a lot of Latinos.

[00:11:40] And so people will get it on their phones, you know, how the digital targeting comes up on your search engines. So we’re really trying to be as comprehensive as possible, get to community, give them the tools that they need. We did canvassing, we have door hangers. with just general [00:12:00] education, right? Like this is where you vote.

[00:12:02] This is when you vote. Don’t forget to mail in your ballot. So that general education and then on our C4 side, we’re saying vote yes on 79 because of this, this and this and vote for these candidates because of this, this and this. So I’m confident that Our investment, both financially, organizationally, but also with our staff and our volunteers and our families and community, like people are very [00:12:30] excited about this and they see a direct connection.

[00:12:36] With our organization and want to be a part of our movement. 

[00:12:40] Sandra Hinson: Thank you so much again, Dusty, for joining us. Best of luck with your work and with this amendment and with the possibilities the amendment opens up for. Making access a real thing because the right without the access is hollow, right? Right.

[00:12:58] Thank you so much. I [00:13:00] appreciate it 

[00:13:00] Cayden Mak: Thanks for all you all 

[00:13:01] Dusti Gurule: do

[00:13:05] Cayden Mak: All right our thanks again to dusty for making the time to join us talk about the really important work that Color is putting in this year. We’ll have links in today’s show notes for more info on where reproductive rights are on the ballot across the country on Tuesday and how you can still volunteer to make a difference in those races.

[00:13:23] There is a lot moving in these final weeks. Um, I’m pleased to welcome back, uh, Lone Tran, friend of the pod, [00:13:30] National Director of Rising Majority, to look at where we’ve come in this past year as a broad front and what work we still have yet to do. Welcome back to Talk and build, Lone. 

[00:13:39] Loan Tran: Thanks, Kate. And it’s good to be back.

[00:13:40] It feels like it’s been a million years and the world has changed 50 times since we last talked. 

[00:13:46] Cayden Mak: I know. I, I, it feels funny to be like the last time we talked was April because it feels like it was literally a year ago. Um, but since then y’all have been busy. Um, you had your, uh, [00:14:00] movement Congress in St.

[00:14:00] Louis. Um, frankly, a lot has shifted in the national landscape through the, like, long, it’s, it felt like such a long primary season. Um, and a lot has also not changed, right, around really important issues that matter to our communities, um, from ceasefire and arms embargo to, uh, you know, a lot of the issues that are going to be on the, on people’s ballots in November.

[00:14:27] You’re really at the center of building a lot of [00:14:30] momentum in the social movement left around the interventions that are animating basically everybody these days. Um, what are some things that you’ve learned through, you know, the summer and fall of, of sort of like weaving this front? 

[00:14:45] Loan Tran: Yeah, you know, I think, um, we were really, uh, fortunate to, to be able to bring folks together in June in St.

[00:14:59] Louis for Movement [00:15:00] Congress. We had over 700, you know, organizers in the room. Representing more than 200 organizations, um, who, by the end of a very long week, were able to affirm that the strategic direction that the left in this country has to head in, um, has to, like, double down on, on facing towards a, a multiracial working class, um, that we have to double down on building our legitimacy, um, by building it.[00:15:30] 

[00:15:30] power, um, in, in meaningful and tangible ways that we’ve got to build our infrastructure. Um, and we have to really get serious about understanding, um, the potential and our role within the, the broader front, uh, against authoritarianism, um, and ultimately for democracy. Um, and we learned a lot in that process.

[00:15:54] Uh, one is. Uh, you know, I had lots of moments where I was like, what, why did we [00:16:00] decide to do this gathering in a presidential election year? Um, honestly, I had several moments. I was like, who picked the dates? And I was like, oh, we did. Um, but aside from that, I think it was actually, uh, critical that we came together, um, because there are truly so many urgent, um, fights and contradictions, um, and rising majorities orientation, um, to that as well.

[00:16:25] Then, how do we actually weave those together, um, in strategic and [00:16:30] meaningful ways, right? And I think, obviously, um, the two main contradictions that we’ve all been grappling with, um, is around the November election, uh, the November contradiction, um, and this U. S. funded and backed genocide. Right. Um, and what we have seen time and time again, um, over the past year is that increasingly the United Front, um, that is needed to end this genocide, um, is, is very [00:17:00] similar and overlaps in significant ways to what we’ve seen.

[00:17:02] to the kind of united front that is needed to defeat authoritarianism. Um, and so with that on the table, it poses some real questions, um, to the left about, um, what our power is, what our influence is. And how do we determine the guardrails of how broad that front goes? Um, and I think, you know as much as things have advanced in the public discourse, um, it’s really [00:17:30] clear that Um, the the sort of democratic party forces still have the majority of the power within this front Um, and and they are getting to choose sort of who who is a part of it and how they broaden 

[00:17:45] Cayden Mak: Yeah.

[00:17:46] Yeah, I I think that that like You know sitting now like before we know what’s going to happen Next week. I feel like there seems to be um some broad agreement [00:18:00] amongst some of the more like thoughtful self reflective folks that certainly like I follow and read about this um power dilemma where Like, there is broad popular support for ceasefire, there is like, some consensus about arms embargo as like a meaningful way to like enact that, and also there’s like, it seems like pretty broad, actually quite broad consensus that like, a lot of the [00:18:30] policies that underpin it.

[00:18:32] Um, Donald Trump’s platform are also like undesirable, whether those are like, you know, curtailing reproductive justice, reproductive freedom, um, people just like actually broadly don’t care about harassing trans people, like, they’re like, leave trans people alone. Complicated. Um, that it’s actually just a very vocal minority that are kind of like shaping that stuff, and yet.

[00:18:58] Like, we see the [00:19:00] sort of Democratic Party establishment lurching to the right in some kind of bizarre attempt to, like, capture the mythical swing voter. Um, and like, it feels like an old, it feels like, uh, Tale as Old as Time, right? It feels like, uh, I, I feel like I’ve, I’ve watched this, um, movie before, and, uh, the remake is worse than the original.

[00:19:24] Absolutely. Um, what do you think are like [00:19:30] the, you know, one of the things that that kind of highlights for me is like, are there levers that we haven’t tried? You know, I think that one of the things that is true about this year is like, people have really been going all out and trying whatever seems available to make an intervention on this.

[00:19:48] Um, what are some of the things that you think May be available to us in the coming months. 

[00:19:55] Loan Tran: Yeah, I mean, I think to your just to your earlier point, right? I think this is [00:20:00] why some of there’s increasing resistance to sort of the framing around like the lesser of two evils Because I do think people are not being flippant by saying like I really cannot tell the difference, you know the number of conversations that I’ve had with folks and and and I think I think, you know, that presents its own challenges because we can, like, get into a whole, like, policy debate with folks, but a lot of people on the surface are like, yeah, I’m having a really hard time distinguishing, you know, [00:20:30] between these two candidates and if you, you know, read the Project 2025, if you read the Project Esther, of course, you’re like, yeah, this is, there is a qualitative difference here, but the context and premise, of it that we’re like more than a year into a genocide is a very difficult thing for people to accept.

[00:20:49] Um, and, and rightfully so, right? I think if anything, it’s a positive sign that there are still many people who are like, we, we simply refuse to accept that, you know, this is okay. [00:21:00] Um, and so, uh, those are, I think those are some of the, the, the, the things that, you know, Ideally, we will have the political space and terrain post this election to really grapple with it of, like, what is, what sharpening do we need to do around some of this framework, and I think we have some sense of it, which is generally, like, you know, talking with the comrades who have been on the doors and doing the deep canvassing, one of the main things is just, like, [00:21:30] let’s just keep going.

[00:21:30] Trying to, like, be honest with folks, right? Like, let’s not try to, like, spin a very difficult situation into something that is more positive than it actually is. And I think that actually goes a long way in a period of time where, when crises happen, there’s this effort to capture and to make meaning. Um, and folks are, you know, in some ways, broadly speaking, like, just saying, It’s looking for some people who are going to tell them the truth, right?

[00:21:59] Like who are going to [00:22:00] be able to say, Hey, this situation is bad. I’m not saying that, you know, we have all of the answers, but we’re definitely saying that Trump is not the answer, right? That that sort of formulation is a lot better than saying like, Hey, if you know, we elect the democratic party candidate, then like, we’ll be solid because folks are like, that is not, you know, what my day to day experience is showing me.

[00:22:23] Um, 

[00:22:24] Cayden Mak: yeah. 

[00:22:25] Loan Tran: Yeah. And and then to your question around leverage, yeah, I think that there’s I think generally [00:22:30] speaking There’s always a lot of things that are available to us And I don’t think that it’s it’s an absence or scarcity of those leverage points I think it’s a question of how those levers are in relationship to each other, right?

[00:22:44] So using the arms embargo piece as an example um You know, we are coming up on what can be a historic vote, um, on a, you know, joint resolution of disapproval to try to block another [00:23:00] 20 billion in weapons from the United States to Israel. Um, And there, that sort of vote is ripe for, uh, an inside outside strategy, right?

[00:23:13] Um, the inside strategy really focusing in on, um, senators who, who can vote yes on this JRD. And then the outside strategy, being able to pull in some of the efforts, um, over the past year of folks, like trying to point some, some intention, [00:23:30] attention and direction to these weapons manufacturers, right? Like you are, 

[00:23:34] Cayden Mak: folks 

[00:23:34] Loan Tran: are calling into question, like who profits off of this genocide, right?

[00:23:39] Because there is always a profit motive when we look at war and genocide and this level of mass violence. Um, Those strategies on their own have their limitations, right? And inside strategy, just going after senators, um, hits a wall in the same way that an outside strategy protesting [00:24:00] corporations that manufacture these weapons hit a wall because those.

[00:24:06] Two things have a relationship to each other, right? A lot of the politicians who, um, have been weak on ceasefire, um, are actually beneficiaries of these, um, you know, corporate institutions, right? And those are the kinds of connections that we have to be able to draw out for each other, um, and, you know, protesting a Lockheed Martin on, on our [00:24:30] own, it’s not going to get Right.

[00:24:31] You know, the corporations are not gonna be like, oh yeah, we’ve been protested. You’re right. Let’s stop manufacturing these, these weapons , we actually have to like pull out. It’s gonna take a lot more than that, right? It’s gonna take a lot more than that and it’s gonna have to take, um, you know, um, a lot of different, um, sort of pressure points, right?

[00:24:49] Um, and we have a responsibility to bring attention to those. And so for me, it’s not a matter of like, um, I think there again is. There are numerous [00:25:00] pathways, um, inside, outside government targets, um, private capital targets, uh, corporate targets, international targets, and it’s a matter of how do those pathways get woven together and in some ways, what’s, what’s the coherent narrative there?

[00:25:18] Because I think what we’re also struggling with in this moment, um. It’s, it’s both a contestation for power, but it’s also a contestation for, like, hope and a sense of [00:25:30] belonging. It, like, folks are actually trying to find things to do, um, that feel like it’s contributing to something that might actually make a difference.

[00:25:41] Um, and I think some of that is playing out in the electoral arena in terms of trying to beat back the advance of some of these authoritarian policies, but we have to keep broadening, um, those places for people to contribute outside of the electoral arena as well, um, to account for the [00:26:00] fact that it’s going to be a much longer fight, um, after these elections take place.

[00:26:07] Cayden Mak: Yeah, yeah, that seems right to me too, that like, part of our job as people who create containers for organized people is like, it’s not just about making meaning of the moment that we’re in, which is also an urgent task, but it’s also like, how do you, how do we stay in this together? And I think that like, [00:26:30] so much of the like, movement, Congress, really appeared to me.

[00:26:35] I unfortunately didn’t get to go, which I was super bummed about. But, um, so much of the Movement Congress is very much about helping people figure out how we kind of hang together on some of these issues that, um, are deeply interwoven. And, and creating a container where it’s like we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[00:26:56] Um, And I think, I think the, the, [00:27:00] if you spend too much, if you spend too much time doom, doom scrolling on the internet, you lose the glimmer. Yes. Actually getting into it with, with comrades, like, you know, in a deep way. You could find that glimmer again. 

[00:27:14] Loan Tran: Yeah. And I think, you know, being really just humble about like none of our organizations and none of our like approaches alone, like is gonna fix everything.

[00:27:29] Cause if that were the [00:27:30] case, then we wouldn’t be on this podcast. Like we would not be having this conversation. Like, it’s just not, um, You know, it’s just not how this works. And and I think the reality, the heartbreaking reality, um, you know, because we’ve been just trying to, like, regroup with folks around what, what can we leverage next?

[00:27:51] And what can we do next to end this genocide? Um, Ending the genocide is the most urgent, um, [00:28:00] task, but it’s only the first task, right? Because what’s been unraveling is the level of U. S. military spending, um, because it’s not just, it’s not just Palestine, obviously, right? Like, we’re, we’ve been slowly inching towards, uh, World War III.

[00:28:18] Um, it’s about U. S. sort of foreign policy and military and corporate interests. all around the world, right? Sudan, Haiti, like it’s, it’s happening. [00:28:30] Um, and so we’re sort of just like, we’re, we’re pulling at this thread and there’s more of us pulling at this thread. And how do we really be prepared for what else it unravels?

[00:28:41] How do we take these moments of mobilization, whether it be around elections or around arms embargo, um, and, and bring folks into a longer term political project? Because we’re not gonna like reduce, you know, we’re not gonna divest all of the US military spending in an election cycle, right? So how do we, how do [00:29:00] we be committed to that?

[00:29:00] Yeah, 

[00:29:02] Cayden Mak: totally. Yeah, well, I think that this also kind of like the, this commitment piece also highlights for me, um, a thing that I’m, I’m curious on your take about, which is the sort of like temptation, tendency to like lay blame. On each other for strategies for tactics for placing our very limited resources in ways that like [00:29:30] maybe we disagree with or maybe we think the outcome is, is, uh, not what we intended it to be, um, and that I do think that a gathering people together and creating space where people can, like, be thoughtful and reflective and like, In some ways, I mean, gentle with each other is not quite right, right?

[00:29:50] But like rigorous with each other and, um, uh, but also like compassionate in that rigor and like, [00:30:00] honest, um, seems like an important piece of like actually building a functional broad, broad front. Um, so I’m wondering if, if, especially from Congress and beyond, like, if you have some reflections about kind of what it takes, like, To do that really important work, especially because I know that like, one thing that is part of the replay of this movie we’ve seen before is that, uh, the left can and may start eating its own.

[00:30:26] As, as things, you know, things shake out [00:30:30] from this election. 

[00:30:31] Loan Tran: Yeah, and unfortunately, you know, I think some of the fracturing has already begun, right? And I just want to keep it really honest with, with folks if we’re gonna, you know, build. Uh, a durable, powerful left. Um, and I think we’re doing a lot better than we have in previous times in terms of the ability to, like, struggle with each other openly, do so in a principled way, do so in a rigorous way, and also, for the most part, in a [00:31:00] kind way.

[00:31:01] Um, but there are, you know, there are some cracks. Um, and I think that that is, yeah. Part of being in the pressure cooker. Um, of like, we’re clearly giving it everything we’ve got, and there’s still some significant gaps. And that all comes back to this question of power, right? Um, because we are inside of this objective front that we don’t have the ability to determine, um, uh, at this point in time, the direction [00:31:30] that it goes in, right?

[00:31:31] We don’t, we’re not Not, we’re not the ones picking up the phone and like deciding if the Cheney’s are in, right? Um, and, and that’s not really how it works anyways, you know what I mean? Like, we’re not picking up the phone and like recruiting people for this front. But the, the gist of it is that we are not in that position, right?

[00:31:48] Of like determining the parameters of this front. And that is a deeply frustrating and can be come a deeply demoralizing, um, uh, component of doing [00:32:00] United front work. Um, and. On the left, we’re really good at punching left, um, but I think that the saw for that does live in, one, we actually have to get better at understanding what each other is actually doing, um, because I, I think that sometimes we raise our critiques, our differences without actually understanding The depth of work or the depth of thinking, um, and I’ve actually had [00:32:30] my fair share of frustrations over this past year, um, with, you know, there’s two, there’s many trends, but there’s two trends, right?

[00:32:37] Broadly speaking, it’s sort of an anti electoralism trend and a left electoralism, um, and, um, There are, I think both of those trends emerge from actually genuine places in terms of trying to wrestle with this question of power. But my frustration has stemmed from there are some critical nuances that are missed in both [00:33:00] trends.

[00:33:00] Right? And so two approaches that could actually be complementary to each other end up being pitted against each other because anyone anti electoralism is considered non strategic. And if you want to get into a fight with someone, that’s like the first thing you can say is like, you’re not being strategic, right?

[00:33:19] It’s like terrible organizing, um, to make people feel less than or like they’re not thoughtful enough. 

[00:33:25] Cayden Mak: Yeah, 

[00:33:25] Loan Tran: yeah. And then folks looking at left to tour [00:33:30] electoralism as exclusively about a presidential election versus as part of a very long struggle for democratic rights in this country, right? So there’s like a flattening that happens that we do to each other, like our opposition doesn’t even have to, like, get us into an argument.

[00:33:46] We pick the arguments ourselves. And instead of thinking, I think, instead of really wrestling with, okay, What what is it? What is it that we’re trying to achieve? What are the objectives? Who are we building? Who are we bringing in? And [00:34:00] then how do these people how do these pieces be in conversation with each other?

[00:34:04] I think we’re very quick to cast each other away. Um, and I think that that is Something that we have to work out of ourselves Um, and and we see it all over right like we might be really strong on the divest side Front of work. We don’t we’re very weak on the invest um, and Where there are invest examples There’s not been enough sort of movement flanking of [00:34:30] those experiments to bring them to scale Right, and so we’re sort of caught in this loop Of pitting things that have to necessarily be in relationship with each other Because when we divest from policing we got to be able to demonstrate that we can take care of our folks You Right?

[00:34:47] Um, but if you cast all of the invest work as just sort of like utopian building your own commune out in the woods and flatten that, it just doesn’t make the best, you know, like it just doesn’t make the [00:35:00] best conditions for the work you need to 

[00:35:01] Cayden Mak: do. like creates huge openings for backlash. I mean, I’m, I, this, that, this particular example feels very alive for me, this election cycle, because as you know, I live in Oakland and both our mayor and our progressive DA are being recalled.

[00:35:16] Um, and they were folks who, you know, Our DA in particular, Pamela Price, has been very vocal about, like, criminal punishment. The criminal punishment system is something that doesn’t actually create safety. She’s [00:35:30] been DA for less than a full term, but like, I don’t think that she’s been appropriately accompanied.

[00:35:37] And then also, obviously, there’s like massive investment from the, um, sort of like, like tech wealth in Oakland in getting her out. And so that sort of like, that gap, I think, that you’re describing is like, it’s playing out, like, in my neighborhood right now. Where, like, I’m having this really hard conversations with my neighbors about, like, why I [00:36:00] think we need to not recall her.

[00:36:01] Um, and they’re like, well, we don’t feel safe in Oakland, and it’s like the, it’s not a realistic, like, the left hasn’t offered a realistic picture of, like, what are the steps we need to take to get to this alternative vision of safety that is, again, like you say, like, not utopian, utopian in its ends, but, like, hands on and practical in its execution.

[00:36:29] Loan Tran: And we’re not going to [00:36:30] resolve it all in the next few months. So I, I do think that, you know, the main thing is I think we got to figure out how we stay together and navigate these changes in the terrain because we, none of us have a magic eight ball. We don’t know what’s going to happen. Um, and our opposition would love nothing more than for this election to absolutely ruin us.

[00:36:55] And I think that this is the opportunity. We have an opportunity here as the left [00:37:00] after this election, um, we’re going to have to keep blocking, but it’s also a moment to build, right? It’s going to be a moment to like, really say like, Hey, we blocked and now we’re going to like, we’re going to keep building the broad progressive coalition that’s needed for this arms embargo.

[00:37:17] We’re going to build the broad progressive coalition that’s needed to defend immigrant communities, to defend trans youth, to defend. You know abortion access or like this is the moment Um, and and but we [00:37:30] can only do that, you know together Um, and we have to be able to demonstrate in real time the relationship between block and build Because it’s not block then build right?

[00:37:40] It’s not Block mostly and build some, right? It’s block and build. And I think that and piece is the piece that we actually have to be prepared to animate. 

[00:37:52] Cayden Mak: Yeah, yeah, that rings true for me as well. And I think that like, of these like, key issue areas that you’ve described, it’s like, we also know that we [00:38:00] cannot rely on any kind of like, entrenched power structure to like, deliver on that stuff.

[00:38:06] Like, that is certainly something that we have all learned clearly, no matter what our orientation towards. electoral politics might be, and that like, there’s a, I think the urgent question is like, what, what are we going, like, how are, how are we going to take up space, I think, in this post election period?

[00:38:26] Um, To sort of like help [00:38:30] guide that process, um, and that like, I don’t know, I think, you know, the, the fact that folks like RM are thinking right now about what we are going to do, regardless of who wins, feels like, that feels like a fresh thing to me personally, that like, in the, in past presidential cycles, especially, um, there hasn’t been The leadership to like take up the space to be like, No, we actually need to be talking about [00:39:00] how we move on November 6th, regardless of what happens.

[00:39:04] And so I think that like this like very clear arms embargo campaign feels Um, like that feels to me like a meaningful left innovation, to be honest. Um, and yeah, I don’t know, could you, could you tell our listeners a little bit about that? 

[00:39:21] Loan Tran: Yeah, so, you know, I think that part of the, the build piece is, [00:39:30] And, and, and related to sort of like, how do we keep, you know, shoring up the legitimacy of the left, um, is, you know, I mean, this has been a really tough year, like, in so many ways, um, and I think that in particular, a lot of folks rightfully so are reeling from, from what, what they have noticed and what I have noticed to be like a sort of a dip in the momentum.

[00:39:54] Right? And, and there’s this feeling, and it’s not based, I haven’t done any research in it, because this is all [00:40:00] anecdotal, right? But like, at least a feeling of like, whoa, like, the candidate got changed and all of the energy got immediately redirected, and it, and it sort of almost as if like, we’re not, We’re like not, the U.

[00:40:15] S. government and our tax dollars is not funding a genocide right now. And, and, you know, and I think that there is obviously a real need for like a division of labor around like, Hey, we got to, you know, in terms of [00:40:30] like fighting authoritarianism and not contributing to the global consolidation of a growing fascist movement, um, we need folks to, to focus in on that.

[00:40:40] Right. Um, and we then need to be able to. Take some of that momentum and, and sort of direct it to the next thing, right? Um, and, and part of that next thing is like coming back and saying, Hey, we are actually, as the left, when we say we’re like serious about something, we’re, we’re serious [00:41:00] about it. Right.

[00:41:00] When we say we’re serious about like our ability to pivot, we’re going to do exactly that. Um, and so we are beginning to, you know, in like partnership with organizations like the U. S. Campaign for Palestinian Rights, Jewish Voice for Peace, Adela Justice Project, and others, beginning to think about, okay, what is like the post election arms embargo, like cross movement push, because the reality is, if we are able to win an arms embargo, and even [00:41:30] calling the vote, um, on J.

[00:41:32] R. D. to block 20 billion in weapons. Um, it opens up, it actually opens up way more space for all of our struggles across the board. And I think that’s one of the things that maybe has gone unappreciated, um, about this past year. Um, We can’t under appreciate or underestimate what the Palestine movement has done for this fight against [00:42:00] authoritarianism.

[00:42:01] I think the Dems can say whatever they want to say about replacing Biden with Harris, but if it weren’t for the massive amount of pressure on the ground. Right? That is actually a big factor that that we we we cannot underestimate. And so I think there’s something there about, um, the Palestine movement reshaping, um, actually some of the core tenets of the social movement left, um, moving away from being viewed as [00:42:30] like a fringe issue to actually something that’s calling into question our entire like economic system I’m just gonna talk about how in the priorities of our democracy.

[00:42:40] Right, like you can’t talk about like funding for housing without talking about the U. S. sending bombs to destroy Palestinian homes. Right. You can’t talk about like funding for public schools without talking about the U. S. sending bombs, um, destroying Palestinian schools, right, like you can’t talk about climate justice without talking about the [00:43:00] impact of genocide as ecoside.

[00:43:02] So there’s, we’re in a paradigm shift. Um, and I think that both for a sort of moral and ethical reasons, but also for political reasons, um, we should not, um, skip a beat, right? To make this turn and say, actually, um, arms embargo, um, is important to all of us. Um, but also the challenge is going to be, you know, [00:43:30] How do we, again, lean into this united front orientation, um, because what surely is to happen is that we’re going to lose some elements of this coalition, of the progressive coalition, if, if, if Harris wins, right?

[00:43:44] That folks are going to sort of go back to status quo. So we need to start now to like secure those commitments to say, Hey, actually, This is not going away. This is actually not an issue that’s going away. Um, and if we want to really be able to [00:44:00] advance a progressive governing agenda, um, then we got to get some wins on this front, um, because it’s just.

[00:44:07] your earlier point, Kate, and otherwise we’re conceding some ground, right? Because otherwise, what’s going to happen is that the Harris coalition, they’re just going to get affirmation that they can keep going rightward. Um, and that’ll be okay. And that’s actually going to screw us all. Nobody’s going to get anything on the table.

[00:44:26] Cayden Mak: Right. Yeah. I mean, it strikes me that like, kind of what we’re [00:44:30] also describing here is like, how do we, how do we kind of like inoculate public discourse against what’s at its core, bad experiment design on the part. Democrat party, right? Like the, the premises of the experiment are flawed. Um, the other piece that I, I was thinking about while you were talking is like also the way in which, um, I think that like the level of sophistication in conversations about foreign policy and internationalism on the left in the [00:45:00] past year has just like absolutely exploded in an amazing way.

[00:45:04] Like I have not seen the like level of sophistication. Um, in like, sort of the casual conversations that we have with our comrades about like, how US foreign policy is shaping, like, uh, You know, how our attitudes towards China are shaping conditions in the U. S. that aren’t being sort of, like, dictated by the neoliberal [00:45:30] establishment, right, that, like, so much of what I remember in previous cycles of, like, talking about the, uh, Those kinds of dynamics were very dictated by the powers that be, by like, sort of like, uh, you know, practical, like, quote unquote realistic logic of how we need to deal with the rise of like another major economy in the world.

[00:45:53] Um, but that there seems to be an opening here too around like, how are we, when we talk [00:46:00] about the issues that affect people’s day to day lives, like how can we actually grapple with, um, The, the broader impact of like, of ri of like great power rivalry of the way in which, like preparation for war that doesn’t yet exist may, you know, it sets the stage for deepening conflict.

[00:46:21] Um, and, you know, I, it’s, I, I feel weirdly hopeful about that also. That I’m like, I think that there’s a [00:46:30] coherence suddenly to the way the left is talking about foreign policy that makes me really, um, yeah, I feel like it’s a thrust in the right direction and I think we can chalk that up also again, as you say, to the success of, of the movement for the rights of Palestinians, that those things are not unrelated to me.

[00:46:47] Loan Tran: Yeah, and I think, you know, we’re also, what I’m also tracking that as is, Like, like a real, actually, like, embodied consciousness and [00:47:00] recognition that, like, the U. S. is part of a global society. Um, and for a very long time, the, like, you know, The hegemonic powers that be have invested a lot in wanting to isolate us, right, and the reality is that U.

[00:47:20] S. foreign policy, um, at least for the past, you know, 30 years plus, is coming back to hurt our [00:47:30] people in the belly of the beast. 

[00:47:32] Cayden Mak: And it, 

[00:47:32] Loan Tran: and it, 

[00:47:33] Cayden Mak: from 

[00:47:33] Loan Tran: a moral standpoint, it shouldn’t take that, right? For us to like, recognize that like, hey, the U. S. is not some like, separate entity from the rest of the world and the things that the U.

[00:47:44] S. government does actually has an impact, um, but the reality is that people’s, material experiences shape how they think about the world, right? Um, and so then it is our duty to make sure that [00:48:00] how they make sense of the world and what they then do about it doesn’t get captured by our opposition that wants to keep things status quo.

[00:48:09] Cayden Mak: Yeah, I, I appreciate that take deeply. Um, great. Is there anything else you want to leave our listeners lifts with? Um, the last, this is our last episode before election day. So wild. 

[00:48:23] Loan Tran: Well, I know I’ve said, I think I’ve said most of my main points already, which is just like my evergreen [00:48:30] agitation for us to figure out how to stay together, even through conflict and differences.

[00:48:35] Um, but I’ll say one thing very specific to the elections, and I think it’s really important that as the left, we be clear about this and we remind each other of this, um, that, you know, regardless of what the outcome is, there will be many attempts to scapegoat the most vulnerable. communities, um, uh, in, in our society, in our bases, in [00:49:00] our organizations, right?

[00:49:01] Um, they are going to want to blame Arab, Muslim, and Palestinians for any number of things. Um, they’re going to want to blame Black people for any number of things. Um, they’re going to want to blame queers and trans folks for any number of things. Women, Et cetera, right? Like the list is very long. Um, and we should not be surprised, right?

[00:49:24] When those efforts happen. Um, and we should be very careful as the left to not [00:49:30] engage in those tactics. Um, even if sort of unconsciously, right? Um, if the Democrats lose this election, it is because they decided, um, to build, uh, a rightward coalition, um, and not align with the overwhelming majority of their base.

[00:49:52] Um, they are losing out on young Democrats who are like, yeah, I would be more likely to vote for Harris if she called for an arms [00:50:00] embargo. Um, and young Republicans are actually thinking the same, right? So, I think that’s the one thing to remember in terms of like, at a systematic institutional level. Um, the Democrats are responsible for the outcome of this election.

[00:50:16] Um, and the rest of us have attempted to make our best contribution to hold together some really heartbreaking contradictions of this moment. Um, and so we should just be really careful about how [00:50:30] we make sense, the kinds of messaging that we’re using. Um, and, you know, to, to, to be able to hold that some of us are going to feel very relieved in the case of a Harris win, and others of us are going to be feeling a lot of dread and ongoing grief.

[00:50:46] Um, and there’s actually, um, room and it’s necessary to hold all of that and figure out how those pieces, you know, fit with each other, but that’s only possible if we can keep an eye on who our primary [00:51:00] targets are going to be, um, after these election results come in. 

[00:51:05] Cayden Mak: Yeah, perfect. Um, it’s always great to talk to you alone.

[00:51:08] Thank you so much for all the work that y’all have been doing this year. I know you’ve been holding a lot. Um, and, you know, my, our thanks and much respect from our team for your small team trying to cohere, trying to cohere the left in the ways that you’ve been able to. Um, and it’s always good to chat.

[00:51:28] Loan Tran: Yeah, likewise, Kate, and [00:51:30] appreciate y’all very much. Appreciate that. You know, the convergent space exists and we’re actually. Able to make some time to reflect and and and think a little more intentionally about these big questions So sending my love i’ll see you on the other side. 

[00:51:46] Cayden Mak: Yeah, absolutely. We’ll talk to you soon.

[00:51:48] I’m sure All

[00:51:54] right, um in these final weeks leading up to the election We have featured some testimonials, uh on the [00:52:00] show from folks who have been canvassing volunteering for different campaigns Um, really just sort of demystify what it is folks do out in the field when they volunteer Um this week we have one last testimonial Uh, from Ellie who has been canvassing with S.

[00:52:13] E. Justice Group, an organization which works to harness the collective power of women with incarcerated loved ones to end mass incarceration’s harm to women and our communities.

[00:52:28] Sound on Tape: Hi, my name is Ellie. I’m a [00:52:30] woman with incarcerated loved one here at S. E. Justice Group and we’re currently in Altadena. We’re canvassing in District 5. We’re here talking to our neighbors. I’m doing border education around Prop 36, Prop 5, and Measure A. And we’ve been canvassing for about three weeks now.

[00:52:46] And it’s, it’s been really fulfilling what we’re seeing, um, in the community is that people don’t want property six to pass. People don’t want 49 billion to be invested in policing and [00:53:00] prisons. And they want that money to be invested in the alternatives in the, um, services that we know that we need and deserve.

[00:53:07] And similarly with prop five and measure a, um, 80 percent of the people that we’ve spoken to are in support of, um, Prop 5 and Measure A, and as a woman with incarcerated loved ones, it’s been really amazing and fulfilling to meet other women with incarcerated loved ones at the doors. And to build connections and to build power, build community with them.[00:53:30] 

[00:53:30] And that’s, what’s been really energizing and motivating me to continue canvassing.

[00:53:37] Cayden Mak: And just one final reminder, as we wrap this episode, just like Ellie, now is the time for you to get out there, canvas, call, text, work on an issue in your area and help. block the rising tide of authoritarianism in this country. You can check the link in the show notes for some places to start. Um, but I’m sure you also have some ideas of your own.

[00:53:56] Um, and before we go, I also do want to invite you to tune into [00:54:00] our live stream next week, November 8th, 11am Pacific, 2pm Eastern, for a special presentation of Block and Build. We’re going to have a roundtable of Some super brilliant movement strategists digesting the week’s news together. And I’m sure there will be a lot.

[00:54:13] Um, the panel that I’ve put together for y’all includes Convergence editorial board member, Tobita Chow, Convergence advisory board member, Bill Fletcher, Jr. Grassroots, global justices, director of political and civic engagement, Kermit Thomas, and showing up for racial justices, executive director, Aaron [00:54:30] Haney.

[00:54:30] Um, if you like me are going to want a grounded, thoughtful and principled place to digest. What happens on Tuesday and beyond, um, please join us. You can find the live stream on the Convergence YouTube channel, and of course, the audio will be available later that day in this very podcast feed. This show is published by Convergence, a magazine for Radical Insights.

[00:54:53] I’m Caden Mock, and our producer is Josh Elstro. Editorial support provided this week by Marcy Ryan. [00:55:00] Editorial board member Sandra Hinson provided the segment with Dusté Gurule on Colorado’s Amendment 79. If you have something to say, please drop me a line. You can send me an email that we will consider running on an upcoming mailbag episode at [email protected].

[00:55:16] And if you would like to support the work that we do here at Convergence, bringing our movements together to strategize, struggle, and win in this crucial historical moment, you can become a [email protected] slash donate. Even a few bucks a month [00:55:30] goes a long way to making sure our independent small team can continue to build a map for our movements.

[00:55:35] I hope. This helps.