Building a United Front Against MAGA, with Loan Tran (Rising Majority)

[00:00:00] Cayden Mak: Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Block and Build, a podcast from Convergence Magazine. I’m your host and the publisher at Convergence, Caden Mock. On this show, we’re building a roadmap for people and organizations who are working to unite the anti fascist forces in order to build the influence of a progressive trend while blocking the rise of authoritarianism here in the United States.

[00:00:22] On today’s show, I am joined by National Director for Rising Majority, Loan Tran. Thanks It’s really great to see you. Thank you so much for joining me today. 

[00:00:32] Loan Tran: Yeah. Thank you, Caden and Convergence for having me on today. I’m looking forward to our conversation. 

[00:00:38] Cayden Mak: Yeah. Could you tell our audience a little bit?

[00:00:41] Maybe just a couple sentences about what you do at Rising Majority and the work that your organization is up to especially in this crucial year. 

[00:00:50] Loan Tran: Sure. So I am based in Durham, North Carolina. I come out of grassroots organizing and base building and a lot of [00:01:00] coalition in the U. S. South namely among youth and student and migrant and queer and trans communities.

[00:01:06] And so I’m coming to Rising Majority with perhaps a surprising amount of optimism about what’s possible when different communities and different sectors of our movement actually come together. Get clear about what our vision is and develop some shared strategy For making that vision real which at the heart of it for rising majority and for our movements as kate and as a whole Particularly in this moment is about this question of power assessing how much power we have and then actually building this strength and capacity to build power, leverage power in such a critical moment.

[00:01:42] And so Rising Majority is a national formation of over 70 social movement left formations that are organizing on a number of issues. Our members are base building organizations. Our members are other alliances, networks, and coalitions. movement building institutions who are [00:02:00] all really committed to and interested in this question of what more becomes possible when we are grounded in a collective vision and can build a strategy to get us there.

[00:02:11] Cayden Mak: That’s great. And, I think I don’t find it surprising that you have a, like a healthy amount of optimism because I, I, as somebody who kind of sits on as a, An observer who is like working in the media that is like close to our movements. I have a surprising amount of optimism about this year too.

[00:02:28] I would say that it’s cautious optimism that the forces arrayed against us are a little rough, but I think you’re right. Like when we have a shared vision and shared principles of engagement, we are really powerful. And our ideas are popular. To start us off here, I think, this is the first episode of this show.

[00:02:47] So thank you so much for going on this journey with me alone. And I thought we would start out today talking a little bit about the sort of balance of forces a little bit in this country. And when we talk [00:03:00] about the balance of forces, we’re really talking about Like you said, who has the power, and what kind of power do we have?

[00:03:05] What kind of power does our movement actually have to influence the folks who hold the power? The power currently in this country. And I think one of the things that’s really challenging about this moment is the sort of the challenge that is presented to us is this challenge of the distinction between the authoritarians.

[00:03:27] And then the sort of sometimes we talk about them as centrists. Sometimes we talk about them as neoliberal. But who certainly aren’t our friends. But in the broad front against authoritarianism have to be our fellow travelers at this moment. And I think that, there’s a, there are a lot of things to get in here, but I think that this is for me an important entry point into helping people think about block and build.

[00:03:51] But I think to start out, I really want to start thinking about together a little out loud about what we mean when we say neoliberalism, because first of all, there are a [00:04:00] lot of ways to define it. It means a lot of things to a lot of people and I want, in this, on this program, I want to be able to talk about those kinds of words.

[00:04:09] In ways that make sense to folks and operationalize them a little bit. To get there, one of the things that we talked about a little bit is over the weekend, and this is so funny, it’s so funny to me that like the first clip that we’re pulling is of this particular person. But Hillary Clinton, the former Secretary of State, former Democratic candidate for president, you may have heard of her appeared on the Jimmy Fallon show and she had something, I think, just deeply out of touch to say to people especially those of us in movement who are raising some really serious questions about the, how the Biden administration has handled its policy towards Israel, especially since October 7th and the crisis and the genocide in Gaza.

[00:04:57] Are we going to roll the clip right now? [00:05:00] Those are the two choices. 

[00:05:03] Sound on Tape: Get over yourself. Those are the two choices. Yeah. I love that. And, it’s like. One is old and effective and compassionate, has a heart and really cares about people. And one is old and has been charged with 91 felonies.

[00:05:20] I don’t understand why this is even a hard choice, really. I don’t understand it, but we have to go through the election and hopefully people will realize what’s at stake because. It’s an existential question. What kind of country we’re going to have, what kind of democracy we’re going to have, and people who blow that off are not paying attention because it’s not like Trump, his enablers, his empowerers, his allies are not telling us what they want to do.

[00:05:43] They’re pretty clear about what kind of country they want. Yeah. Get out 

[00:05:47] Cayden Mak: there and vote. 

[00:05:48] Sound on Tape: Get out there and vote. 

[00:05:51] Cayden Mak: I, what’s wild to me about this clip is she’s not wrong, we can’t blow off the far right, but she’s the one who’s blowing things off, [00:06:00] right? I don’t know. What are your feelings about these thoughts here?

[00:06:03] Yeah, 

[00:06:03] Loan Tran: Her response is just so rich, it, I’m just like, Hillary Clinton the one who, helped to build the infrastructure and streamline the mass criminalization of Black youth in this country by naming them super predators, it there’s, it’s trying to make an argument and.

[00:06:22] From a sort of a seemingly moral standpoint about the effectiveness and compassion of a Democrat who is currently overseeing a genocide, right? And I think that’s one of the things that it just a little bit acknowledgement of that could actually go a long way for the base that is needed.

[00:06:41] To really ensure that we are able to face this existential crisis and defeat Authoritarianism at least at the ballot box and federally in november, right? And so i’m just like i’m chuckling because i’m like this is absolutely absurd It’s absolutely absurd and that’s that clip is [00:07:00] bookmarked by she comes on talking about easter extensively and then it closes by her talking about this play that she’s been producing on what the women’s suffrage movement.

[00:07:10] I’m like, Oh, this is just a beautiful cocktail of nonsense. Basically. 

[00:07:17] Cayden Mak: Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I think calling it a rich text is totally right too. Cause I also think the one of the things that I’m noticing this morning, re watching the clip, is the way that she says we have to play out this election as if there are no other alternatives, this is the sort of Biden is the de facto nominee that there are no questions about his suitability to be the nominee and there are different folks Like within our forces on the left who are like, the convention’s not till August, right?

[00:07:47] There’s there’s a lot going on and I, we will talk a bit about the work of the uncommitted campaigns and what that’s looked like. But it also occurs to me that just the. Sensibility about, [00:08:00] that sensibility of her certainty is something that I think speaks to, like, where she’s positioned in this kind of elder states person both political and cultural power kind of thing, but it’s it’s almost like it’s impossible for her to see how she’s like showing her own ass a little bit in this clip. 

[00:08:23] Loan Tran: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, on the question of neoliberalism there’s, because of the economic and structural emphasis on privatization, on deregulation, on essentially very little and moving towards none at all, any sort of government or state intervention on the so called free market, The ideas that are entrenched and conditioned, that all of us, including those of us on the left, have to wrestle with and grapple with, this deep individualism and this sense of personal responsibility allows someone like Hillary Clinton to take out all of the nuance, [00:09:00] of the moment and context that we’re in, and say that it’s simply between, Trump, who has 91 felonies charged against him, and Biden, who’s this like effective, compassionate person, and she’s making a joke that they’re like both old white men.

[00:09:15] All of the, but all of those, as are just symptomatic of deeper questions of power and deeper questions about the state of our democracy and our economy and I think that’s what’s challenging in a particular moment like this for a lot of our forces, much less the folks that we’re organizing with or trying to organize, to distinguish to be like, what is really the difference between authoritarianism, and neoliberalism?

[00:09:38] And it’s important to remember that we have to fight both but that’s the strategic question, right? It’s like, how do we approach it? How do we sequence it and how do we ensure that we’re doing everything we can to the best of our ability determine the kind of terrain that we want to fight on because we can get caught up in the hubbub of like the strong man leader tropes and [00:10:00] the, this is Trump and this is Biden, but we’re actually talking about entire administrations, right?

[00:10:05] We’re talking about institutions. We’re talking about public offices at the federal level, but at every other level from the local to the state. state. And so there’s lots of layers here that, I’m not surprised Hillary Clinton is not going to get into on the Jimmy Fallon show, but another thing, for us to be really sober about let’s not fall into what I think is also A somewhat neoliberal trap, right?

[00:10:29] That we should just reduce these kinds of moments down to individuals and then everyone, can just decide if they’re gonna, sit this one in or tap in, to the sit this one out or tap into the game, right? 

[00:10:40] Cayden Mak: Sure. Yeah, I think that’s a really important insight that so much of the way that the mainstream talks about a presidential election is about these the two candidates and their personalities and like, how they, as individuals, embody ideology, right?

[00:10:58] That It’s weird, actually, [00:11:00] if you think about it this way, and I I’ve heard some folks from the Working Families Party talk about, the way that electoral politics works in the United States, that it is very individual and the way that our, that political parties are structured also gives rise to that, in that I could go run for city council here in Oakland tomorrow and say, I’m a Democrat.

[00:11:21] I don’t have to be accountable to the Democratic Party structure, per se, but if I get enough votes, I can be a Democratic City Councilman, that’s the way that parties work in the US, and there’s no, there’s, the mechanisms are I guess you would say internal discipline in a party are like, much more squishy, than they are in sort of other parties.

[00:11:42] Like forms of legis legislative democracy which is interesting. And I think also the thing that you’re pointing to here alone too is like what I think this gets to the heart of what we’re talking about when we’re talking about the work of block and build, right? That being able to distinguish [00:12:00] between the authoritarian and I keep bringing this up.

[00:12:03] With folks and I know that you’re aware of it, but project 2025 from the Heritage Foundation that like it is wild to me how many people are not aware that the Heritage Foundation, this huge like arch conservative think tank has put out this enormous document basically outlining the Trump agenda. If he were to win in November.

[00:12:24] And they pull no punches. They are very clear about what they want to do, not just in terms of the policies that affect people’s everyday lives, but the structure of our government, right? It’s it is both about Banning abortion and banning the teaching of anything having to do with race and racial justice.

[00:12:43] But it’s also about like, how we’re going to warp the justice department and how we’re going to eviscerate the civil service so that the people who deliver the services to humans who need them in our country just won’t exist. Or they’ll be like ideologues and cronies. And that’s really what [00:13:00] we’re up against, right?

[00:13:01] And I think that really gets to the heart of like what we’re trying to block. Their agenda is clear. And I think this imminent question then is what is the build part? And the term that I keep hearing in spaces is United Front what is the United Front? Who’s in the United Front?

[00:13:17] How do we relate to that front? And I think that’s that feels like a really live question. Like the reason that I keep hearing it is because it’s a live question. And I don’t know. I don’t know. What do you, what are you, what are your thoughts about, Where we sit right now, on on the left, as people who are explicitly progressive, who are invested in building a more just society, like, where do we sit in this united front?

[00:13:41] What is that looking like from where you sit? 

[00:13:44] Loan Tran: Yeah I appreciate that question, Caden, and I smiled a big smile when you said United Front because I’m just like spending basically every waking moment of my life right now thinking about it and trying to figure out how we at the [00:14:00] very least orient our forces to that, both the concept but also the practice of it and then I probably spend a You know some sleeping hours thinking about it too, but i’m glad that these days i’m not really remembering many of my dreams and so maybe there’s some relief and respite there, but yeah, all that you’re naming.

[00:14:19] Is really live and particularly for You know a project like rising majority that got started. Shortly after the 2016 presidential elections right by movement organizations Namely Movement for Black Lives, Grassroots Global Justice Alliance, Blackout Collective Center for Third World Organizing, BlackBird a crew of organizers and movement formations that have been wrestling with some of these questions for quite some time and tracking, some of the major gaps particularly around our strategic clarity and foresight to be able to deal with these big questions.

[00:14:58] of power, right? [00:15:00] And one of the things that we have focused in on, particularly for this period is how do we, we spent a good number of years just trying to wrestle among ourselves about correcting some historical positions that social movements in particular have taken related to the question of electoral organizing and electoral power as one pillar of governing power.

[00:15:22] It’s not the whole pie, but it is one critical pillar of it. And that’s why a project like Project 2025 has the ability in the room to put out a 1, 000 page document in great detail about how they are going to set up and I think it’s really important that we systematically gut any semblance of democracy in a regulated, market as we currently know it, right?

[00:15:43] Because they have honed in on this strategic gap, right? We’ve taken a very antagonistic position to elections, the role of them to this question of democracy. That is space that we have conceded and in a lot of ways, right? Because that’s a direct [00:16:00] response to our lived experiences. When we talk about democracy, most of our folks, black communities, indigenous communities hell, even like working class white folks are like democracy for who?

[00:16:11] It seems like it’s democracy for rich people and for corporations, right? And so that when we talk about united front in this period there’s some interesting conversations to be had one around the objective, right? That sort of political objective of this united front. Some of us might argue that it’s a fairly big united front against Trump or against MAGA.

[00:16:35] Some of us might dare to say that it’s a united front for democracy, but it’s hard to say that sometimes, right? Because we’re like, we have lots of different definitions of democracy. But broadly speaking in this united front are lots of forces. And the reality is that the united front in this moment would exist whether or not the left chooses to engage in it.

[00:16:57] And so that’s one of the sort of first [00:17:00] steps for us is to just have a sober assessment that these forces are coming together. And when I’m talking about these forces, I’m talking about the neoliberals, I’m talking about the centrists, I’m talking about, the Democratic Party establishment and increasingly, more participation from social movement left from progressives in general but we are not in leadership of that united front right the ideas that are dominant the approaches the strategies we should be very clear are still very much so about status quo democracy It’s still about neoliberalism as a, economic and governance approach, right?

[00:17:37] But if we don’t engage in that united front where all of these forces are coming together, then it’s going to be more difficult over the long term for the left to ever be in any position to lead. anyone, even ourselves, potentially, right? Like we just, this sort of tough, it’s a tough bitter pill to swallow right now, right?

[00:17:57] That we have to find ourselves inside of this [00:18:00] very broad front that includes neoliberals who, you know in many instances are our targets, right? We go after them for their economic policies. We go after them for their heavy reliance on the law, on carceral systems, on policing to target our people.

[00:18:16] But in this moment when we’re talking about the potential of another MAGA administration, that’s been very explicitly clear. about how willing they are to use authoritarianism and how willing they are to be fascist, those forces are actually our main enemies, right? And inside of this united front, let’s be real, not all of us are going to do all the things, right?

[00:18:41] Sometimes it’s a bridge too far, right? To figure out how to, be tactically organizing with the centrist, but some of our forces have to do that because the truth is also that some of those centrist, some of those liberals have more strategic positions to leverage. They have more access.

[00:18:59] They have more [00:19:00] influence. They have more infrastructure, right? And so we think about it from that vantage point. And if we try to shed, some of the individualism that seeps into us as a function of living under racial capitalism and under neoliberalism, then we can perhaps more readily assess there is a very critical role for the left to play.

[00:19:19] In terms of holding a poll around our long term vision and strategy, and there is a role for the left to play in terms of demonstrating to our communities that we’re willing to contend for leadership. Because we’re invested in the future. We’re not just invested in being correct in this moment or having the sharpest analysis We’re willing to take some risk But we need to do you know, we need to do that with each other and with our folks 

[00:19:44] Cayden Mak: Yeah, that’s excellent.

[00:19:45] I think that’s such a I don’t know it just feels like such a grounded approach in this moment when things feel very dire but also like We need to understand What’s at stake and we need to understand what’s so what we can do [00:20:00] today might make possible for tomorrow, right? That this is not a one and done fight and I think there’s so much there’s so much of an understanding of elections as a one and done fight.

[00:20:09] In the sort of like popular consciousness but what I hear you talking about is building a new muscle, building a new culture around like how we think about any particular contest as, A time to test our relationships, test for alignment and figure out how we move together, which is again it’s no surprise that you’re you have somewhat of a hopeful lens on this, because I think that there’s, I was actually telling somebody yesterday, I was was supporting a big direct action here in the Bay Area where we shut down Lockheed Martin for the day But I was talking to one of the other protest marshals about this, that I do think it’s conversations like this that feel different to me than they have in certainly like my sort of life as a conscious political being.

[00:20:55] And that’s really cool. It’s like I said, it’s no wonder, it’s no wonder you’re feeling so hopeful. And I think that [00:21:00] like maybe a really good entry point to talk about what this looks like in practice is the persistence and the sort of like upswell of energy around voting uncommitted in the democratic primaries.

[00:21:15] Michigan was the fulcrum around which A lot of this campaign seems to have moved, but the momentum doesn’t seem to be dying down. We heard a lot about Michigan in part because it’s a swing state, so it’s like more quote unquote newsworthy for your cable news network. And also I think that it was a real site where a lot of Individuals and organizations, critically, through resources and expertise behind getting the message out, turning out voters really talking about it in the context of what’s going on in Gaza and also this week there were another set of primaries, including in New York and Wisconsin, which is another big state that I think a lot of people have on their minds this [00:22:00] year especially Because of, it’s critical role in that kind of swingy, Rust Belt block of states.

[00:22:07] But we see that as of Tuesday’s primaries, the uncommitted campaign has yielded a total of 26 uncommitted delegates. Including the folks from Michigan and this week, 14. 9%? of Democratic voters in Rhode Island voted uncommitted, 11. 4 percent in Connecticut and 8. 3 percent in Wisconsin. What do you think is, what do you think we can take away from this work and how do you see this as like an entry point to bring in more social movement forces into conversation with some of the powers that be.

[00:22:43] Loan Tran: Yeah, when we look at the uncommitted movement so far, in a lot of ways, what it what it’s done for our folks, and much less our forces, is It’s provided a moment of relief. It’s almost provided [00:23:00] the sense of okay, we have, there’s actually another step in this pathway. And I can’t, that can’t be understated, because it’s been.

[00:23:10] We’re, Caden, we’re coming up on six months of literally of more than 30, 000 Palestinians who have been killed and with each passing day the veil is lifted in terms of how much the U. S. is entrenched in this genocide, and the contradictions right now of the Biden administration, essentially, Co opting ceasefire right and saying ceasefire for ramadan ceasefire for the next six weeks or what have you and biden is still approving more weapons, to go to israel, right?

[00:23:45] It’s a tough I can’t believe that we’re half a year in and this is you know, it’s why this is where we are It’s come it’s completely Ridiculous and it’s heartbreaking and it’s crazy making and I think this has been a [00:24:00] necessary bridge for us to figure out how to demonstrate That there’s so many different avenues where we could be leveraging power and building power And that it is both possible to registered dissent and register our protest and maintain a level of strategic clarity about what needs to happen next.

[00:24:22] And I think it’s, I think we’re in a really tough moment because among our many different communities, right? We have varied experiences of you of being scapegoated in moments like this. And I would, and I would imagine, and I also know from conversations I’ve been having that our, Muslim, Palestinian, Arab brothers and sisters and comrades are like, y’all can’t blame this outcome on us.

[00:24:45] You know what I mean? And, but, and that’s a pattern, right? Like our black comrades experienced that regularly with basically every presidential election. It’s always X, Y, Z didn’t do enough. Or, the black vote should have saved democracy, right? All of these, [00:25:00] again, like I mentioned earlier, are symptomatic of a deeply flawed.

[00:25:04] Governance and economic system that we live under. And so we have to. Really acknowledge that we have to honor that and we’ve got to figure out okay between all of these multitudes of Contradictions between these multitudes of objectives all which are really critical right that we have to win a ceasefire immediately that we have to ensure that there’s an end to this U.

[00:25:27] S. Funded genocide, and we have to ensure that the terrain coming out of November is one where we can continue to organize around the next set of demands for our Palestinian communities, but also for all of our communities. Broadly, right? The money, the trillions of dollars that go literally, into weapons into war machinery.

[00:25:48] It goes into border enforcement, goes into border militarization, right? It’s coming out of the budgets of social services of, institutions that are meant to steward our well being as a [00:26:00] society. And instead it’s going towards criminalization, right? It’s going towards policing.

[00:26:04] It’s going towards prisons. If we remember that then we can more readily take up this challenging task of weaving together those multiple objectives And I think one of the things that i’ve been most fascinated by around the uncommitted piece is that it’s this wonderful cocktail of you know using the collective mass political will That we can’t always take complete responsibility for our social movements, right?

[00:26:32] Because, and that’s part of my optimism, is I do think most people are actually fundamentally good. And it’s about the structures and the systems that allow that to come out. And so this moment is one of those sort of interesting moments where, we’re seeing a marriage of this this intrinsic goodness of humans and this outrage and this heartbreak, figuring out an institutional expression that can help us advance and get a few steps forward.[00:27:00] 

[00:27:00] We have to do whatever we can. We have to leverage everything we have. Most definitely up until, the August DNC that’s happening in Chicago. And many of our folks are already planning for that. And then we have to figure out how we pivot, right? Where do we channel the collective political world next?

[00:27:17] And that question most definitely is about channeling that political will to defeat authoritarianism and fascism. Again, at the very least on the federal level, I think there’s lots of questions that we’re sitting with the rising majority and our partners are sitting with around preparing for any number of governing scenarios, because we know that our folks are.

[00:27:37] always going to be facing backlash that they’re, the sort of anticipation of political violence is one that has a historical and material basis. We’re not just imagining it, right? Like we’ve seen it, we’ve seen it lots of times. But in this moment right now the fact that, In several states these campaigns have been successful narratively culturally and [00:28:00] have garnered a number of delegates.

[00:28:02] That’s pretty incredible to me. And I’m deeply appreciative of the kind of leadership that has emerged. And I’m very clear that we need to make sure that there’s a strategic through line that is helping people to understand there are more steps to come and we need folks to keep building. 

[00:28:19] Cayden Mak: Yeah, I think that’s quite right, I, one of the things I really have appreciated about the uncommitted campaigns is just that, in a election year where there’s a, an incumbent who feels like already the de facto nominee, you do see also a lot less participation in general, and that like momentum matters, like it feels like this is, having a real concrete thing for folks to latch onto to actually encourage people to like, actually go to the polls during the primaries.

[00:28:47] When we have an unpopular incumbent also just feels big in terms of getting inert, like getting inertia to be on our side instead of our enemy. Like an object in motion stays in motion and that’s true for people and [00:29:00] their level of engagement with this particular political, kind of political expression.

[00:29:05] So that also feels hopeful to me too, that our forces are the people who are reaching those voters, and reaching those voters first this year. And giving them the opportunity to be part of a larger project, which is cool. Great. Let’s as we wrap up here, I think, a lot of what you’ve said, Has I found to be deeply heartening and super optimistic which may surprise some people.

[00:29:32] But in general, also personally what are the things that are keeping you going this week? This has been a a tough week in terms of news out of Palestine and it’s hard to look away, but where are you going for, where are you going to refill your cup this week?

[00:29:48] Loan Tran: Yeah. So I, I love poetry. I think poetry is one of the ways that we are able to capture and express things that otherwise just make no [00:30:00] sense, right? And it’s a way that we make sense. And I think a lot to this poem by Nate Marshall. Titled, The Valley of Its Making, and I won’t read the whole thing, but I do encourage folks to check out the whole piece, but there are some lines at the end that I want to just read out loud.

[00:30:19] It goes, Nothing about our people is romantic. And it shouldn’t be. Our people deserve poetry without meter. We deserve our own jagged rhythm and our own uneven walk towards sun. You make happening happen. We happen to love. This is our greatest action. And I think about, these lines a lot because the work that we’re in it’s complicated.

[00:30:44] It’s messy. We’re complicated, messy people and a lot of us wouldn’t be in this work if we weren’t deeply maladjusted to how the world currently is. But we’ve also got to figure out how to be oriented to constructing the kind of world that we do want to be in. And that [00:31:00] requires experimentation.

[00:31:01] That requires a lot of messaging. Those mistakes. And then very, on a very technical level and moments like this, it requires us to do things that we’re deeply uncomfortable with. That we’re not used to doing, that stretches us that feels challenging. But if we remember at the core of what we’re doing, and I think that this is what the past several months of the momentum and organizing historic organizing among the U.

[00:31:29] S. left for Palestine, from my perspective demonstrates is that we are capable. We are capable of meeting the moment. Of course, history mandates that for us, but also the future. And that’s what I’m, that’s what I’m interested in. That reminder keeps me grounded. I do think we’ll figure it out, and I know that, Gramsci says Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.

[00:31:52] And so that’s what we’re doing. We’re practicing that, right? And as rising majority continues to bring together as many forces among, our [00:32:00] movements as possible, right? To think about power and to build power together. I feel actually really rest assured that If we can figure out how to stay together in a year like this, we’ll be in a much stronger position for the kinds of battles that are to come.

[00:32:15] Again, under any governing scenario, but there’s, one in particular that I would actually prefer in terms of our long term ability to build power and get our people free. Hell yeah. 

[00:32:26] Cayden Mak: Hell yeah. Thank you so much, Lone. It’s always a pleasure to talk to you and really get some big ideas out into the world.

[00:32:34] If people want to connect with your work, with the Rising Majority, where should they go? What should they check out? 

[00:32:40] Loan Tran: Yeah you can find Rising Majority on the interwebs. We have a website, we’re on Instagram, we’re on X and you can also follow me personally on Instagram or on X, and that’ll be two spaces where folks can learn more about you.

[00:32:53] Our 2050 vision, our 10 year power building strategy and a movement Congress that we’re hosting in June in [00:33:00] St. Louis to again bring our folks together and make sure that we are in lockstep as much as possible so that we can really get through this year and the next 10 years, 25 years, right?

[00:33:10] Our opposition is thinking well into the future, and I am deeply committed to a world in which our people are strong. Are in the future where we have one where we have power and where our democracy and economy is one that actually reflects the things that matter most to us as as a society.

[00:33:27] Cayden Mak: Beautiful. Thanks again. This show is published by Convergence, a magazine for Radical Insights. I’m Cato Mok, our producer is Josh Elstro. If you liked this episode and you want to support the work that we do here at Convergence, bringing our movements together to strategize, struggle, and win in this crucial historical moment, you can become a member on patreon.

[00:33:46] com slash convergence mag. Even a few bucks a month goes a long way to making sure that our independent small team can continue to build a map for our movement. And with that, we will see you on the [00:34:00] internet.