Harris Fumbles with the Uncommitted Movement, with Emily Lee (Seed the Vote), Layla Elabed & Elianne Farhat (Uncommitted National Movement)

The following transcript was automatically generated and may contain minor errors.

[00:00:00] Cayden Mak: Welcome to Block and Build, a podcast from Convergence magazine. I’m your host and the publisher of Convergence, Cayden Mak. On this show, we’re building a roadmap for the people and organizations who are trying to unite anti fascist forces in order to build the influence of a progressive trend while blocking the rise of authoritarianism in the United States.

[00:00:28] Before we get started, I want to acknowledge our newest Movement Builder and Movement Champion subscribers. Colleen Gibbons, Stephen Hollis, Tamer Ebrahim, Sushawn Robb, Robert Perrone, Garrett Virchik, Jess Crawford, Leon and Eric Mann, and Edwin Batongbacal. Thank you all so much for being a crucial part of this.

[00:00:46] of Convergence’s work. We literally could not do this without you. If you want to join the ranks of those who make our work possible, you can become a subscriber at convergencemag. com slash donate. We miss you all last week. Our team got hit by COVID, which is still surging nationwide. It’s still on the uptick.

[00:01:04] Put on those masks, take care of each other. It’s rough out here, um, but we appreciate your patience. Last week, a student led protest movement in Bangladesh forced the resignation of long time Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina, motivated by nepotism and corruption in her government. Over 200 students were killed and thousands were arrested in street protests over the last three weeks.

[00:01:27] And this week, Nobel laureate economist Muhammad Yunus returned to the country to serve as interim prime minister. And over the last two weeks in the UK, racist anti immigrant pogroms in several cities were stoked by social media disinformation, blaming immigrants and Muslims for violent crimes. These riots have been met with mobilizations of people in the streets that have supplanted them, with massive crowds of everyday people from many walks of life saying no to fearmongering and violence.

[00:01:53] Showing that the strategies described by anti fascist organizers to make political violence backfire work in real time. They’ve successfully redirected the energy by mobilizing support and done what police repression simply could not. Another example of what’s happening. of us keeping us safe. Here in the states, we are now in the thick of Atlantic hurricane season.

[00:02:14] Tropical storm Debbie has made landfall twice in the past week in the continental continental U. S., flooding northern Florida, Georgia, and the Carolinas, and killing seven as it moves up the east coast. And here in California, the Park Fire, the fourth largest wildfire in state history, is still only about 35 percent contained.

[00:02:33] On Tuesday, Vice President Kamala Harris announced she has chosen Minnesota Governor Tim Walz as her running mate. Walz represents one of the more progressive leaning options in the veep stakes, having enacted popular policies that benefit working people like free school lunch and paid family leave in Minnesota under his tenure.

[00:02:50] After the Minnesota primary, Walz notably commended the uncommitted movement for their activism on national television, and many hope that this signals the direction of the Harris campaign will move on ceasefire in Gaza. Others have pointed out Waltz’s deployment of the National Guard against pipeline protesters.

[00:03:06] This highlights the fact that no elected official will be fully aligned with our movements, but many see Waltz as a movable figure who has already gone toe to toe with Trump fans rhetorically as well as politically. What actually makes Tim Waltz a great VP pick? The fact that organizing in Minnesota is strong.

[00:03:22] I can’t recommend more highly a feature on the subject from In These Times written by my friend Sarah Jaffe. Labor unions, community organizations, and electoral organizers have come together to shape Waltz’s record, and I cannot understate how important that is to how we should approach thinking about him as a candidate, and potentially as a vice president.

[00:03:41] We’ll drop a link to her article in the show notes. It’s a great read. Of course, the other big news of the week was the round of late primaries in Arizona, Kansas, Michigan, Missouri, and Washington State. The biggest news out of these primaries is that Representative Cori Bush was defeated in her primary after AIPAC linked PAC United Democracy Project dropped nearly nine million dollars into her opponent’s coffers.

[00:04:05] After Jamal Bowman’s primary earlier this summer, that makes this race the second most expensive congressional primary in history. While it might feel like the power of that kind of money is unbeatable right now, the truth is that AIPAC and others feel like they need to make these huge spends because they know that the majority of voters don’t want to see continued US support for genocide.

[00:04:27] Policies supported by champions like Cori Bush are also overwhelmingly popular. They’re spending this cash because they don’t have any other way to win. And while we might not have that kind of money, we do have people power. The work of organizations like Seed the Vote, who recruits, trains, and supports volunteers to doorknock and phone bank with local partners in the most critical swing states for presidential, senate, and house races, is a strategic, coherent answer to the organized money on the other side.

[00:04:54] I spoke last week with Executive Director Emily Lee about their strategy and what makes their work so effective. It’s good to see you, Emily. How’s it going? 

[00:05:03] Emily Lee: Doing really good. We are less than 100 days out from this momentous election, so ready to go. 

[00:05:10] Cayden Mak: Yeah, it’s crunch time. How are you feeling? 

[00:05:13] Emily Lee: You know, since last, last Sunday, feeling pretty good.

[00:05:18] Good. Excellent. Yeah, it’s, things have been, uh, changing a lot in the last, you know, couple of weeks. And so the conditions for our organizing have actually gotten a lot More ripe and there’s a lot of momentum and energy right now as I’m sure you know So that is a good place to be, you know, um a little bit more than three months out from the election 

[00:05:40] Cayden Mak: definitely, let’s zoom out a little bit though because I feel like I Imagine a number of our listeners are familiar with seed the vote But for those who aren’t I was wondering if you could tell a little bit of the story of seed the vote Where the idea came from and why you really think you guys have been so effective 

[00:05:57] Emily Lee: Yeah, so seed the vote started as an idea in 2019.

[00:06:01] And, um, in some ways came about because, um, those of us who co founded seed the vote really saw a lack of engagement or intervention from, um, Left spaces, left activists and organizers about what is our intervention in stopping the reelection of Donald Trump in 2020. So that felt like a very key question, um, which we were a little bit, we were worried about that.

[00:06:27] Hey, there’s not enough people talking about this. There’s not enough people on the left taking seriously what it would take to stop Donald Trump. And so, um, Coming out of, you know, or coming out of, you know, a disastrous first term of Donald Trump. I think there was a clear imperative that, you know, for the sake of our long term movements, for the sake of the communities we organize in, we cannot allow a second, uh, Trump term to happen.

[00:06:52] So, uh, See if the Vote was born out of this broader idea of how do we fight the right while building the left. And, uh, Eventually, it turned into, hey, this intervention that we could have is actually to partner with, uh, power building groups in swing states and actually bring, you know, non swing state volunteers to those places to actually help with talking to voters, uh, knocking on doors, doing phone banks, and so that’s what we did in 2020.

[00:07:20] We mobilized 9, 000 volunteers in 2020 to do some, to take some sort of action to stop Trump, whether it was a phone bank, door knocking, or fundraising. And of those 9, 000 volunteers, about 1, 200 of them eventually ended up Going in person in the middle of a pandemic to go doorknock in either Arizona, Pennsylvania, or to Georgia for the Senate runoff race.

[00:07:41] So, you know, it has been kind of amazing to us, you know, what started out as kind of an experiment of how do we in our safe blue states, our safe blue states, Our blue cities actually be part of a national fight to stop the rise of MAGA, to stop the rise of fascism. Uh, and since then we’ve, you know, worked in the 2022 midterms and of course this year we’re going all out again and increasing our programs and our scale to make sure that Trump is defeated.

[00:08:07] Cayden Mak: That’s amazing. I mean, that feels like a really huge number of people to also coordinate the logistics for to like get them to various places. Um, Yes. Yeah, so I, I mean, I guess like my next question is kind of about the how of that work. And you mentioned that working with local base building groups is, is the way that you do your work.

[00:08:28] Can you talk, tell me a little bit about how you build relationships with folks on the ground and like what that kind of work looks like? 

[00:08:34] Emily Lee: Yeah. So, you know, we started, uh, in 2020 to work with different partners and swing states, some of whom we’ve had some relationship with because of prior movement relationships.

[00:08:44] Um, and some of whom we were, you know, getting to know and really building out like a, a more clear partnership and starting with some very basics of, Hey, can we, can we work with you on a phone bank? Can we work with you and, you know, try out sending you some of our volunteers? and see if that’s effective, you know, because we always want to be a value add to organizations on the ground.

[00:09:04] We don’t want to be a burden, which sometimes it can be when you’re adding on partners from other places who are not local or bringing in volunteers who are, you know, from out of state. And so our goal was always, how do we be an out value add to these base building groups? Cause they got enough to worry about without having to deal with.

[00:09:21] you know, the logistics of moving hundreds of volunteers into their operation. And so that’s kind of what see the boat is trying to take on is the backend infrastructure, the logistics coordination of getting hundreds of people into different swing states with local partners, um, getting them set up in hotels and getting them their car rentals.

[00:09:40] And that the local partner doesn’t have to deal with all of that, but that is necessary when you’re moving thousands of people to different places is there’s a lot of logistics. And so, um, we are, Really clear about, um, not wanting that burden to be put on the local groups and the grassroots organizations, and but also really taking the lead from them about what is the most strategic use of our volunteers, right?

[00:10:03] How can we use people’s, you know, experience? Experience or language skills or familiarity, um, with door knocking to actually help the local partners meet that reach their door knocking goals, right? Because they have big goals to be able to talk to hundreds of thousands, if not, you know, a million voters in their swing state, knowing that that’s going to be the critical difference to whether that state turns blue or turns red.

[00:10:27] So I think a little bit is just cultivating that type of partnership and showing that, um, You know, our volunteers can be a critical part of them meeting their door knocking goals, and ultimately kind of this bigger fight to stop the rise of authoritarianism, and to do it in a way that supports the power building goals of these groups on the ground.

[00:10:47] Cayden Mak: Yeah, I feel like that model is really, I find the model to be really interesting because of Also, I mean, my experience is in digital, right? Digital organizing and, and one of the things that I saw early on as sort of a digital person in the like 20, like early 20 teens was that a lot of power building groups, a lot of folks like in grassroots organizations were very skeptical of collaborating with digital folks because they were like.

[00:11:15] A lot of times, y’all swoop in and take credit for things that were not your work, or like, um, interfacing with your staff is like this huge burden on us. So, it, it, like, finding that and finessing that, that line between, like, we’re gonna be a real value add, is, and, verse, and, like, we’re also, like, an independent, separate organization that’s, like, doing our work, um, seems really delicate and valuable.

[00:11:42] And it sounds like this is a formula that like a number, like we’ve sort of figured out, which is kind of exciting. 

[00:11:49] Emily Lee: Yeah, I think, um, you know, this is only our third election cycle. But I do think that from the very beginning, it’s been very Our intention is all to be trying to be, you know, we’re not trying to parachute in, we’re not trying to swoop in, um, you know, and take credit where it’s like not due because at the end of the day, the people who have to, you know, organize year round in in those swing states in those very difficult conditions and terrain, like they’re the ones doing the very difficult work of charting a long term path and a long term strategy to, um, Um, flip those states.

[00:12:22] And, uh, I think that, yeah, what we can do in service of that during election cycles, you know, we want to be, be good partners. And, uh, I think the other thing is we’re not trying to mimic, you know, some practices that have happened with the Democratic Party where, yeah, they just come in for, you know, a couple months.

[00:12:40] And then they’re not paying attention to what are the conditions on the ground, who’s going to be there afterwards, is there a clear plan to absorb the energy and the people and the voters into real organizations that can then turn that into long term grassroots power. So I think that has always been our goal, is like, we need to partner with people.

[00:12:56] You know, these amazing folks on the ground, like Lucha, Worker Power, Unite Here, um, API, Political Alliance, WFP, um, Surge, and, you know, so many others, People’s Action, right, who are, they’re on the ground in these localities, um, with their affiliate organizations, um, and running just, you know, kind of, this is the kind of like grassroots organizing we all should be supporting from a national level, right?

[00:13:22] It’s like at the local level. 

[00:13:24] Cayden Mak: Yeah, yeah. No, that’s really, it’s, it’s, it’s cool. Also, I’m curious, like, about the sort of, like, relationship building that might happen in between cycles, too. Because, like, obviously There, there are elections that happen every year, whether or not they get national attention.

[00:13:41] Um, and also, there’s, uh, definitely a lot of time in between those. Uh, what kind of, like, uh, relationship building do y’all do with those grassroots groups? 

[00:13:51] Emily Lee: Yeah, that’s something we’re actually trying to figure out right now is what is the off cycle work of Seed the Vote because traditionally we’ve operated as a very, like, electoral focused organization where it’s like when there’s big, you know, midterms or general presidential elections, we really, you know, increase in size and like have a clear Strip, you know, uh, Program and I think in those off years It’s like very clear the fight against MAGA and fascism cannot only be waged every, you know, two or four years um, and so what does that building in between look like how you know, How could activists and or you know people across the country who are united in a really clear like coalition to defeat MAGA?

[00:14:31] How could we use that and build that year after year? Um, because I do think, of course, with the kind of cyclical nature of elections, you have a lot of energy and momentum and then it drops. Um, and it’s important for us to think about if we’re really serious about this long term fight, uh, then we do actually need to, like, keep those folks engaged, right?

[00:14:49] The thousands of people who come through our doors and. You know, through a part to learn about the partners locally. And so I do think that this like, there’s a lot more to be figured out for us to as well internally around, you know, what does our fight look like post November 5th, right? There’s going to be a lot of election defense work that’s needed.

[00:15:05] There’s a lot of, um, folks who are already going to be on the ground in those swing states, like we’re going to have thousands of people there on election day. they shouldn’t all go home on November 6th. Like some of them need to stay and like actually be working with our local partners to get direction about like, okay, is there a rapid response need?

[00:15:24] Is there like, you know, election department monitoring we need to be doing so that people actually are able to conduct. You know, fair and free elections that every vote is counted. Right. So I think, um, these kind of questions and also the in between the election cycle, uh, you know, the race, the races that people are engaging in for local office or for, you know, some of these things that we are now seeing is super critical to maintain basic functions of democracy, like not getting election deniers.

[00:15:50] to be the registrar of your, you know, county or your, you know, state. It’s like those are very important fights that don’t often get a lot of attention, right? Um, not in non election, non presidential year. So I think there’s a role for us to play, you know, with our local partners, providing that leadership of year round.

[00:16:08] And what is the that muscle we need to be building? 

[00:16:12] Cayden Mak: Totally. Yeah, that’s really that’s the I think it’s really valuable. I’m, I’m also thinking about the conversation that I had, uh, about a month ago now with, um, Vivian Topping from Equality Federation about how, like, the way that we fight the, like, anti trans hate machine actually just comes down to deep canvassing.

[00:16:29] And that, like, some of those kinds of things need to happen at the, like, school board race level, right? Which is, like, so granular. And, and specific. Um, but that, like, you know, the anti trans hate machine is such a, like, major on ramp into a lot of, like, more extreme views about how our society should be run.

[00:16:51] Um, that’s exciting that y’all are thinking about that. 

[00:16:56] Emily Lee: Yeah. 

[00:16:57] Cayden Mak: All that said, also, like, what are you all up to this election cycle? It’s obviously a doozy. Can you tell me a little bit about your program this year, and, um, the analysis that undergirds that program? 

[00:17:11] Emily Lee: Yeah. Um, I mean, I think, Obviously, there’s been so many, like, political upheavals, and there’s a lot of political turbulence in this year, as we all know, um, from kind of, you know, the, the Biden dropping out of the race, um, the continue the ongoing genocide in Gaza, and, um, the Trump, you know, kind of mass shooting that happened, to then now Kamala, you know, being the nominee, or the, like, very likely nominee, um, and I think, Underscoring all of the turbulence and kind of these ups and downs in the political cycle is actually just the really clear, the clarity that I think we have internally that a Trump victory would just unleash, unleash a frontal assault on all the areas of policy, all the democratic rights and norms and open up the use of political repression in ways that we’ve never experienced as like social movements.

[00:18:06] Cayden Mak: Um, 

[00:18:06] Emily Lee: and that a Trump victory in our mind would also of the situation in Gaza, Ukraine and all areas where wars being waged by anti democratic and authoritarian governments. And it just further emboldens far right violence, lawlessness and destabilization, not just in the United States, but actually globally.

[00:18:24] So it just really feels like our ability to defeat the The right beginning with trump is one of the defining struggles of our generation, right? that is to us a very clear like we have a There’s there’s a long there’s a very long term fight around this and there’s a very clear short term Victory, we we need to achieve by ensuring that maga and trump don’t seize power at the federal level.

[00:18:48] Um, and I think the contradictions of this moment between the ongoing genocide in Gaza has really created a situation where all, you know, social movement groups are called upon to throw support behind the Palestinian cause, whether it’s the call for ceasefire, the end of Israeli occupation, or the right of refugees to return to their land.

[00:19:05] And so For us to meet this moment and, you know, as an electoral group, also contribute to the ceasefire movement in ways we can electorally, um, we, we want to do that. And we also have to be laser focused on defeating Trump no matter what. Uh, so I think that, you know, there’s definitely tension between those goals.

[00:19:23] Uh, and I think, you know, we’re pretty clear that, you know, we need to stop Trump’s reelection in the general, in November. Um, and we were always clear about that, whether that, you know, You know, the nominee was going to be Biden or whether it’s Kamala or somebody else. And so that needs to happen so that we actually have a terrain where we can wage the offensive battles as opposed to just never ending defensive fights under like a Trump presidency.

[00:19:46] And then I think secondly, we want to, we really were clear this year too, that we have to support members of the squad, members of Congress who’ve been very vocal leaders on ceasefire. Um, this is a contribution that we can make to that, that cause. Um, even though it kind of differs, we typically don’t play in primaries.

[00:20:04] Um, but you know, it’s something that we can do and we can mobilize our base of volunteers to do. So it’s a really concrete contribution that we think is useful in damaging, you know, AIPAC, the Israel lobby’s ability to make supportive Palestinians like a third rail issue in US politics, um, where they’re priming progressive representatives with either conservative or moderate, you know, Democrats.

[00:20:24] And so those are kind of our two ways that we’re trying to, you know, block the right, the left by like defending our progressive champions on the squad like cori bush like summer lee um, and for folks who, you know, don’t know cori bush has her primary race, um, on august 6th which is coming up very soon.

[00:20:44] And so we are all hands on deck right now for cori bush in st louis but for folks who want to come volunteer for cori um there’s phone banks you can join right now you can find them on our website seedthevote. org And there’s also door knocking happening right now for folks who, you know, can get out there, who need financial aid, see the vote.

[00:21:02] We’ll support people to go do that. 

[00:21:04] Cayden Mak: That’s great. Yeah, I I’m not sure if we’re gonna drop this interview before the 6th or after but You know, it’s I don’t know the the like constant train the constant train of Primary is just It feels like it’s been forever. I know. Like tracking primary results. Are there, are there other, uh, like key races that you all are playing in before November or?

[00:21:33] Emily Lee: No, we’re focused on the primary. This is our last primary for the squad members who are vulnerable. And so, um, that, that’s our main work is. August 6th, I’ll, I’ll out for Cori, and then after that, we pivot to the November election, and, um, we’re gonna have phone banking starting up in August, in mid August, uh, in the swing states with our local partners, and then we’re also gonna be launching our November, our, um, door knocking program.

[00:21:58] So, you, most of Places are launching right after Labor Day, so we’ll have an intensive kind of like two plus months to get people on the ground knocking those doors. Um, and obviously I think your listeners know that the, you know, the, the, the presidential outcome will be determined in like a handful of swing states and a handful of counties in each state where the margins are extremely close.

[00:22:21] And so whoever we can get out there to knock for two days, four days a week. three weeks. You know, it all matters and it all is impactful for whether we win or lose this election. 

[00:22:31] Cayden Mak: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, I mean, I think, I think one of the things that that highlights is the way in which the sort of like winners take all system can kind of be like, we can play that game as social movements.

[00:22:43] Um, we don’t have to sort of like just acquiesce to the way in which it works. Right. Which I think is like, well, the y’all’s analysis and approach is that it’s like, There can also be sort of this like, uh, like organizing acupuncture almost. That system. 

[00:23:03] Emily Lee: Yeah, that’s a great metaphor. We should build that out a little bit.

[00:23:07] We’re organizing acupuncturists. This pressure point. 

[00:23:13] Cayden Mak: Yeah, yeah. What is this going to release? What is that pressure point going to release? That’s a good question. Um, I don’t, yeah, like, I don’t know if that metaphor is going to work for everybody, but it works for me. So, you know, obviously, as you mentioned, it’s been an incredibly turbulent year already.

[00:23:30] Um, and I imagine that like, you know, you feel like you’re juggling way too many things at once, but I’m, I’m curious about, you know, what are some of the like stories that you’ve been hearing from your canvassers? What are the things that are keeping you going and like motivated for this fight, um, that just feels like it’s.

[00:23:48] You know, interminable in some ways. 

[00:23:50] Emily Lee: Yeah, I just feel like if anybody has not heard the stories from our canvassers actually that is what keeps me going because you’re right like it is those kind of like really powerful like one on one conversations people are having that just kind of shows like what’s possible and like we like you said the antidote to Like pessimism and the antidote to authoritarianism.

[00:24:11] I really do believe is this kind of like deeply humanizing, deeply connective, um, deep canvassing, right? It’s like using these conversations and this in person organizing to really turn the tide on what feels like an ever more polarizing society, um, of political beliefs. And like, that is actually how we have to disrupt it.

[00:24:31] And so to me, like one piece of that is like the work that we’re doing on the doors, connecting with people. Um, and so, yeah, some of the amazing stories. Well, I’ll just say right now, what has been, like, keeping me going, like, in the last two weeks is just like, the flood, the surge, the momentum of people who are coming out of the woodwork, like the general public, you know, people who are not paying attention to this.

[00:24:56] race at all. People who are not paying attention to Project 2025, who are not paying attention to the presidential debates, who are not paying attention to, like, what, you know, issues are going to be on their ballot. Like, I feel like people now are starting to really feel this, like, sense of like, okay, I gotta tune in, I gotta pay attention, or I have to track what’s happening because, um, The excitement, um, of the fact that, you know, we have a new nominee, potentially the first woman of color, the first black female, the first South Asian female president, um, is historic.

[00:25:26] And I think, you know, for all of, um, the left’s critiques of Kamala, um, Like we have to recognize the scale at which everyday people in society are listening and paying attention and excited about her campaign, excited about her race. And that, you know, there’s like, I feel like also the people who are excited are people who are seeing this excitement like me, who are like, I’m seeing people excited.

[00:25:50] That makes me excited because it gives us hope. Right. Like the way that we lose this election is apathy. Right. And people just being like, well, I’m just sitting it out. Like, it’s all, it’s all messed up. It’s all, you know, we’re all disillusioned. And so I think when, when we have a way to break through that, like that feels so like, there’s so much more possibility for us to actually organize people into something that’s bigger, that’s broader, that’s more longterm.

[00:26:14] Um, and so I feel like that is really keeping me going and we’ve seen, you know, just in seed the votes. Like volunteer recruitment, we’ve seen a 400 percent increase in our signups across the board online of like mobilize and our info sessions and our mass calls like 400 percent increase from what it was before Biden dropped out.

[00:26:36] Yeah. And I feel like that is the energy that we need to win and that we need to be engaging like thousands and thousands more people to take concrete action. Right. So I feel like that is what’s keeping me going in these hundred days, or 97 days until election day. And, uh, that’s inspiring actually. 

[00:26:55] Cayden Mak: Yeah, no, that is incredible news.

[00:26:57] And, and it’s, it’s amazing to see that thing kind of quantified, right? That like, there’s a way in which the like overall vibe of, um, the base, however you want to describe it has just been transformed into a, a 400 percent increase. It’s staggering. Um, and, uh, I imagine that you all are like, you’re like, finally on some level.

[00:27:25] Yes, we were like, 

[00:27:26] Emily Lee: maybe it’ll happen in September. We hope it happens in September. But the fact it happened in July, that’s huge. You know, if we can keep this momentum going, like we can organize enough people, enough activists, enough organizers, enough, You know, people who are engaged to take some kind of action this November.

[00:27:43] So yeah, it’s, it is huge. And I think it’s pretty unprecedented, right? Just like what we’re seeing happening. So I think, and I think like, it’s true that like, the power of the face to face contact, you know, and we know there’s so many great organizations nationally who do amazing, like text banking, postcard writing, letter writing, phone banking, and the power of like human to human contact.

[00:28:06] Um, Like the stories we’re hearing from St. Louis right now about like, Hey, you know what the conversation I just had on the door with this voter literally undid millions of dollars of disinformation and like attack ads on Corey, um, of the lies and the misinformation that’s getting spread by the other side, you know, and I think that is true is that, One good conversation with a voter can undo the millions of dollars of ads and, you know, articles and, you know, whatever, Twitter bots that are targeting, um, folks.

[00:28:39] So anyways, I think that that is true and we’re seeing that, you know, happen, but it all depends on can we get enough people out there to have those face to face conversations. 

[00:28:47] Cayden Mak: Yeah, absolutely. No, I think that like, that thing is, is just broadly true that there’s so much, you know, I feel it even in this sort of like micro my own sort of like limited experience where like, I’ll spend a bunch of time scrolling on like Instagram and like get lost in the sauce a little bit.

[00:29:06] But then when I have a conversation with a real human being, even if it’s, you know, on a screen, and you know, often I’m having these conversations for the show, um, that I like reground in the sort of values that have led me to this work in the first place and realize that like, Oh yeah, like some of the smartest people I know are solving for this.

[00:29:25] Like it’s going to be, we’re, you know, like we’re making, people are making their, their, their, uh, level best effort to figure out some solutions. These are like really intractable problems, um, that are about more than just an election cycle. So. 

[00:29:42] Emily Lee: Yeah, exactly. And that’s the work that our local partners are doing on the ground, right?

[00:29:46] It’s like year in, year out, before the election, after the election, they’re thinking about it, you know? So we got to support them because they’re, they’re facing the toughest conditions, honestly, in organizing. And they’re like, kind of on the knife’s edge of like, which way are we going, you know, in our community.

[00:30:00] Um, and I think that’s, it’s really important for us to support their efforts on the ground in some of these most contested places. 

[00:30:07] Cayden Mak: A hundred percent. Um, well, is there anything else you wanted to share about your work this year? Any other thing, thoughts that you have about what you’re building at Seed the Vote?

[00:30:17] Emily Lee: Well, I would just say the other thing I didn’t mention, which is a really key part of our strategy, is really kind of a united front. You know, approach that we, there’s no single segment of the, you know, broader center left that has enough power to fight MAGA and win. And so I think we’re really clear at Seed the Vote that it’s going to take every single one of us.

[00:30:38] And this is a moment around, in some ways, I think about the example of my own family of like how we are united in our, you know, effort to oust Trump once and for all. And, you know, in 2020, we were all debating each other. Most of my family is. You know democrat but like so we weren’t fighting about like, you know, do you support trump or not?

[00:30:57] But we were fighting about well, who should be the nominee in 2020? It should be bernie It should be warren. It should be hillary, you know buddha judge whatever and like I think there was a lot of internal Like debate and in some ways internal fighting amongst like the center left and um, I think this year it’s like we’re very clear like it’s a united front and we have to go, you know from uh, You know, the most left progressive folks all the way to, you know, more centrist Democrats, liberals, and even to engage with Republicans who don’t want Trump to be president, right?

[00:31:29] Like we actually need that united front to win. And so see, the vote is very clear about that. And so in some ways, it makes us a really big tent for anybody who wants to do something, right? You don’t have to agree with us on all of our political stances. There’s no litmus test for you to be part of see the vote in that way.

[00:31:45] It’s really about if you believe that. There’s no way that Trump and MAGA should have control of this country, then you should join us. And so this is a great way to recruit anybody who you might know that doesn’t share your exact politics, but is united on this very clear objective. And so I think See the Vote can be a political home, can be a vehicle that people can join and, you know, take part in their action, because we can accept everybody.

[00:32:08] We can have, we have a role for everybody, whether it’s door knocking, phone banking, you know, fundraising to send people to go door knock, that’s a critical role for people, um, even just behind the scenes volunteering. So if there’s people out there who, You know, they want to do comms work and make graphics for us, or they want to, um, you know, provide one on one support to volunteers who are traveling and help them with their logistics behind the scenes, uh, operations and admin work.

[00:32:31] We have, like, our organization is run by volunteers, actually, and so for folks who are out there, there’s a role for you at Seed the Vote. Um, there’s a place for you. Come reach out to us. Come check out our website. site, whether it’s to sign up for door knocking, um, we provide financial aid for people. So if it’s something, you know, we don’t want it to be a barrier and cost for anybody who wants to go do something this election.

[00:32:52] So yeah, check us out at seedthevote. org, um, and plug in, like do something, right? This is a time where we have less than a hundred days to make some decisive actions, uh, to fight fascism and to lay the ground for better organizing in the future. So I think that’s, that’s my pitch. That’s my appeal is, Do something and do it through seed the vote or find another great organization.

[00:33:14] Um, we have many great partners too. 

[00:33:17] Cayden Mak: Amazing. Thank you so much, Emily. It was a delight to talk to you about this and the super critical work that you’re doing and the super critical, like part of like a broader movement ecosystem that, uh, you know, I definitely think that the way in which you identified that gap.

[00:33:34] And the last site in 2019 is, is, is right on that. Like, there are very few places where people can just plug in and do something in a way that is like both principled and, um, inclusive in a meaningful way. So. 

[00:33:50] Emily Lee: Yeah, thanks so much, Cayden. Appreciate everything Convergence magazine is doing to uplift these efforts and kind of provide the space for us to have these conversations and discussions.

[00:33:58] So, thanks very much.

[00:34:04] Cayden Mak: So what’s it like out there canvassing? Producer Josh Elstro joined Canvassers in St. Louis last month to see what it’s like on the doors. Take a listen. 

[00:34:12] Sound on Tape: My name is Calder, uh, she, her, uh, I am with Seed the Vote, uh, via Action St. Louis while I’m on the ground here and just working to reelect Cori Bush. I’m from Oklahoma, not a whole lot we can do locally, so doing our best to get progress forced from the outside in.

[00:34:30] You know, I’ve found that a lot of election work where you work directly with the candidate They give you a list and they send you out there with no training. I found that when you work for secondary organizations that are fighting for progress, you end up getting a lot more thorough of a training and they make sure that you’re comfortable first before you hit any doors by yourself.

[00:34:51] And frequently that means hitting doors with other people before you go out solo. It’s a completely different experience. I think that’s really what I like about it. Canvassers come from out of state. Most of them are just trying to help out. So we do an introduction to the candidates. It’s the policies, their voting history, um, the city that they’re in, just that you deserve to feel passionate about where you’re canvassing too.

[00:35:13] So we do a lot of introduction to the city and to the individual neighborhoods so that you get an idea of like, what the demographics are like, what the history of the neighborhood is. Um. Who, if anybody notable from history lived there, like Miles Davis is from St. Louis, which is rad. So we do a lot of just making sure that people know where they are and what’s, what is it that should, they should be excited about.

[00:35:36] And then we get them out there and they actually get to meet people who live there. and talk to them and learn about them and the reasons they vote and why they vote for who they vote for. And it’s just exciting. But otherwise I go with lit facing out so they can see through the peephole or through a window what I’m doing.

[00:35:54] Makes them either more likely to come to the door or less likely if they’re home, like, but. It tends to have a disarming approach because people know I’m not there to sell something if they can see it.

[00:36:10] Cayden Mak: Kamala Harris was in Michigan on Wednesday on the stump and received criticism for how she handled rally protesters calling for an arms embargo against Israel, which she did by shutting down their protests with threats about Donald Trump winning the presidency. 

[00:36:23] Sound on Tape: You know what? If you want Donald Trump to win, then say that, otherwise I’m speaking.

[00:36:31] Cayden Mak: There are so many reasons why this response just isn’t it. These protesters are folks whose families are bearing the brunt of Israel’s assault on Gaza and are suffering and dying in real time. In order to win their votes, she has to take their calls seriously, offer real policy solutions, and treat them how you’d treat anyone who’s hurting, with empathy and openness.

[00:36:49] Before the rally, she also met two co founders of the uncommitted national movement in the photo line, including Abed, connecting them with members of her staff for further conversation. She has an opportunity now to make this right and secure Michigan’s support in the process. Here’s what Ella Beds said on Instagram yesterday about her face to face with VP Harris.

[00:37:11] Layla Elabed: I had a moment yesterday to briefly engage with VP Kamala Harris and Governor Tim Walz in the photo lineup when she was visiting, uh, Detroit yesterday. Um, and in that brief engagement, I did get really emotional. I introduced myself, I was introduced as one of the co founders of the Uncommitted National Movement, and the first thing I said to VP, uh, Harris Was I’m Palestinian and I got really emotional after that because I was thinking of my community members who are losing hundreds of their family members.

[00:37:47] And I told BP Harris that I said, Michigan voters right now want a way to support you, but we can’t do that without a policy change that saves lives in Gaza right now. I meet with community members who are losing tens and hundreds of family members in Gaza. Will you meet with us to talk about a arms embargo?

[00:38:10] And she, you know, nodded, um, she agreed, yes, we will meet. And so I think it, in that moment, it felt reassuring and this window of openness to meet with uncommitted leaders, um, to meet with Michigan voters. to talk about what is necessary in this moment to save lives. And I really felt that VP Harris’s empathy towards me and empathy towards the plight of Palestinians was incredibly genuine.

[00:38:40] Cayden Mak: The ball’s in Harris’s court now. Now, here’s my interview with Laila El Abed and Elian Farhat, two of the key organizers behind the Uncommitted National Movement. Laila and Elian, thank you so much for joining me today. I’m sure this is a really busy time for both of you. 

[00:38:59] Layla Elabed: Yeah, thank you, Caden, for having us on.

[00:39:02] It’s good to be 

[00:39:03] Elianne Farhat: here. 

[00:39:04] Cayden Mak: Well, I think it’s safe to assume that our listeners are aware of Uncommitted. Um, if not following or have themselves voted Uncommitted, I think it would be not surprising to, to, uh, listen to it. Learned that most of our listeners voted uncommitted in the primaries if they voted at all Um, could you tell a little story though about where the idea originated and kind of you know Give us a brief overview of what led us to this point and maybe Leila we can start with you And then Eliane you could talk a little bit about your perspective as well.

[00:39:37] Layla Elabed: Yeah So, you know Basically, how it started was right here in Michigan. Um, I’m a longtime organizer, um, in Michigan building political and electoral power within the Arab American and Muslim American community. And, um, Essentially, what happened was a memo by Waleed Shaheed, um, was being passed around, um, it to organizers and activists and folks that have been involved in political organizing in the state of Michigan.

[00:40:15] Um, and basically this memo was a theory of change that we could use Michigan’s, um, primary to vote uncommitted in order to send a message to Biden, president Biden, uh, the democratic party and his reelection campaign that without a shift in policy that ends the killing and occupation of Palestinians, that he.

[00:40:44] Was at risk at the risk of alienating and losing a key Democratic base right here in Michigan. Um, from supporting him in November. And the reason why that’s significant is because Michigan is a key swing state. Michigan lies in the pathway, um, to the white house. Um, and that pathway runs through, um, cities like Dearborn.

[00:41:10] And the reason why this was so significant is because the current, uh, administration’s policy on the buzzer deeply impacts. folks here, not just within the Arab American and Muslim American community, but it is significant to our community because it is our community that knows firsthand the impact of American funded bombing.

[00:41:32] Um, and so, you know, uh, I got this memo and I was like, this, to our communities who right now are, you know, left with an impossible choice. Are we going to choose a candidate that essentially bans our homelands and all of the authoritarianism and, uh, fascist policies that comes with that presidency. Or do we put our support behind a candidate that is literally complicit in genocide and supporting the agenda of a war criminal, um, and his right wing government.

[00:42:14] And so these are impossible choices. And so many folks were like, I’m just not, you know, I’m, I’m not going to vote. I can’t, you know, I don’t want blood on my hands. I can’t. you know, get behind this candidate or that candidate. And it really offered hope to our community, um, and to Michigan Democrats, um, that we could vote uncommitted in the primary to send that message before November in hopes of getting that much necessary policy shift that will save lives.

[00:42:44] Cayden Mak: Yeah, and I, I feel like the, the thing that seems really salient, too, is that like, getting people in motion is often the hardest part, that like, the momentum of actually engaging people in Michigan’s primary is pretty early, if I remember correctly. Um. 

[00:42:59] Layla Elabed: Yeah, Michigan’s primary was in February, and it was like, the earliest we’ve ever had it.

[00:43:03] That’s wild. And a lot of folks A lot of folks didn’t even know we were having a primary. Um, and like, even when I was talking to my base, um, that I built within the Arab American Muslim American community around our very local issues, like clean water and affordable housing and, you know, affordable utility.

[00:43:22] We’re like, what do we do? What do we do in November? And so the fact that we had this This strategy, um, for the presidential primary was really something that we could all get behind. And it really offered a time of peace. really offered hope in a time of, like, feeling hopelessness within our communities.

[00:43:44] Um, and amazingly, here in Michigan, you know, it was a catalyst for a national movement that spread across the country. And it went from Michigan to Minnesota, who launched their campaign literally in just a few short days, which was and they were incredibly successful. Um, and in Michigan, One thing that I am really proud of is the fact that we were able to mobilize 43 percent of unlikely and bursting voters to the Michigan primary.

[00:44:18] It was huge. Um, and I think it also speaks to the coalition that we built, that this is not just contained within the Arab American or Muslim American community, that this is voters of conscience. These are Democratic voters who don’t want to see our tax dollars being used to fund war crimes. Um, and in the hopes that we could unite our party and give Democrats the fighting chance we much, much need.

[00:44:46] We desperately need in november to fight against a um a mega administration and a mega, uh, Um 

[00:44:54] Cayden Mak: candidate. Yeah, that’s huge um ellian could you talk about the pivot into minnesota and also like I guess like what this looks like as a national movement because I know that Uh, also some of the states here on the west coast have had big turnouts and stuff like that 

[00:45:10] Elianne Farhat: Yeah, i’d love to speak to that.

[00:45:12] I mean as leila said We put, you know, we put together a campaign in Minnesota in a couple days, a week before the Michigan election day, two weeks before our own election day, um, because we in the state felt the energy for the strategy, um, and I think there’s a couple things to think about, both in terms of what What sort of sprouted and emerged after Michigan in Minnesota and then nationally so for us in the state of Minnesota, you know, we have a very robust Movement calling for a ceasefire calling for an arms embargo.

[00:45:51] We were in the streets. We were taking action. We were passing resolutions, particularly a very strong one in Minneapolis. You know, we were contacting our elected officials. We were doing all these things that you’re supposed to do to make change in our democracy. And another lever that we have are elections.

[00:46:09] And, you know, Layla and I both work for organizations that Take seriously contesting, contesting in the electoral arena. Um, and so for us at Take Action Minnesota and also in, in the state of Minnesota, this really resonated with us as like, this is another arena, um, and point of leverage that we have to take, um, advantage of.

[00:46:33] And we have to move on because people are dying and. We have to do everything we possibly can to get this country to change course, because that will literally save people’s lives. Um, so it made just a lot of sense for how we think about our role, how we think about sort of, um, a multi strategy campaign.

[00:46:55] Um, and then we were just deeply inspired. And so it was happening in Minnesota as we were watching our comrades in Michigan building this amazing campaign. Um, folks are getting more and more inspired by Listen to Michigan, and really, you know, you can feel, you can, you can feel the change and energy and possibility when you are like in a campaign, when you are relating to people, when you are in the streets talking to folks.

[00:47:22] And the experience I had that the many ceasefire organizations that we were organizing with. Both formal organizations like JVP, um, as well as sort of informal organizations that emerged, um, in Minnesota, some very powerful parent and family organizing. People are, people are like, okay, should we do this?

[00:47:42] Should we do this? Should we launch an uncommitted campaign in Minnesota and usefully. Minnesota is one of the states that had uncommitted as an option to fill in on your ballot. Um, and so we said, yes, we said, let’s go, you know, um, and, um, and, you know, I, we had amazing success. We had amazing success.

[00:48:06] Nineteen percent of Democratic primary voters in Minnesota voted uncommitted. It delivered 11 delegates to the national convention. We are the largest uncommitted delegation, um, which, you know, you have to be proud of as a Minnesotan. And I think there were a few ingredients that led to that level of success.

[00:48:28] In a very major way, we had the winds of Michigan at our back. We couldn’t have been that successful if we weren’t building on what Layla and Listen to Michigan built in Michigan. Um, we had, um, a diverse and broad ceasefire movement that had been elevating the demand for a ceasefire and an arms embargo across our state.

[00:48:50] And people were hungry to continue to take action and continue to do something. And there were leaders inside of that and really important for Minnesota. Asma Mohammed stood like stepped up and became our public leader. Like we need that to be able to be successful. Um, we had infrastructure that lined up.

[00:49:08] So there was like the national infrastructure, um, and state based infrastructure from in Michigan that sort of pivoted to Minnesota. But we also had organizations like take action, Minnesota and DSA really sort of lend infrastructure on that front. Um, and. We had people who were paying attention and were hungry to take action and the very powerful, you know, piece of the uncommitted movement and a vote is that it is a mass action that is very accessible to many people, particularly people paying attention to politics and people who are voters.

[00:49:47] And so similar to Layla, um, like the coalition in Minnesota. Um, while led by Arabs and Muslims, um, in many ways, uh, as well as, um, Jewish leaders who are organizing in the state, it was a truly multiracial, multigenerational, multi faith statewide vote. Um, that that delivered that win, and then it just continued to grow.

[00:50:11] And so the characteristics that that you heard Layla speak to about in Michigan that I’m speaking to a Minnesota sort of continued along the way. It meant people were stepping up to lead. People were stepping up, um, to pull campaigns together on very short notice. People were taking an all hands approach of in your state and across the country.

[00:50:33] How can we swarm to the need and deliver, um, and over and over again, our campaign Was delivering an action that people were hungry to take, um, and that people at mass scale could take, um, and, you know, help build a powerful movement that is having a real impact, um, in the broader movement for, um, a ceasefire and arms embargo and, um, Palestinian liberation.

[00:51:00] Cayden Mak: Yeah, I think thinking back to like the wind, like late winter, early spring, how Watching, like, the discourse about it on the internet bubble up really felt like people were also seeing a different way of thinking about elections, that I think that, like, we don’t talk about in the mainstream, that, like, inserting that idea that, like, elections can be an expression of, like, a popular desire for policy change, popular frustration with the like refusal of the establishment to change.

[00:51:35] That also felt very significant. Like, did you see that sort of like coverage and that discussion of the work that you all were doing shift during that time? Was that something you noticed? 

[00:51:47] Layla Elabed: I definitely think that we Saw a shift maybe not always in the most positive terms and I think people I don’t whether it was deliberate or not.

[00:51:58] I think that some folks looked at our strategy I saw it as a strategy of like You know, helping, uh, uh, you know, Trump and you know, um, things like that. But I think what we were able to do, um, and leaders like Ian and leaders like as Hammed in and Minnesota, and leaders across. Uh, states that had, um, really robust, uncommitted, uninstructed protest vote campaigns, were able to say that we are democratic voters.

[00:52:34] We are turning out the vote, um, for Biden’s democratic base that otherwise may stay at home and not vote at all. And taking that frustration, um, and those feelings of voter apathy. and building off of the movement that was happening on the streets with the rallies and the marches, um, and the protests and taking that to the ballot box, um, to give folks, um, you know, that protest vote, uh, To send that message.

[00:53:09] So I definitely think that there was shifts and that it wasn’t always positive, but I think these folks who stepped up into those places of leadership has have done a really, really good job to reiterate that this we we are all Democrats. And right now we are offering that fight that much necessary fighting chance for Democrats in November.

[00:53:33] Elianne Farhat: Yeah, I agree with Layla and I You know, when we think about electoral strategies and for those of us who. Incorporate them into our work as part of our theory of change, and it’s not for everybody. You know, there’s lots of things to do. Um, but, you know, one thing I believe that we are getting sharper and sharper as in as a, as a broader movement, having now gone through so many sort of movement upsurge moments.

[00:54:02] Um, I’ve been deep sort of thinking about this. Um, I’ve been in deep conversations last week around this. Yeah, and also coming out of the Minnesota context of 2020 and the mass uprising for black lives and black futures after the police murder of George Floyd, um, we have and and many other experiences across the nation and what we have learned as a movement in these upsurge moments is the importance of.

[00:54:26] Organizers, organizations, leaders, seeing their lane, naming their lane, claiming their lane and then delivering inside of it. And the uncommitted national movement is a perfect example of people who, you know, Laila and I were in the streets, um, we were, we were like passing resolutions. We were talking to our neighbors, um, and also we do electoral politics and that was an important ingredient for us to take responsibility for.

[00:54:55] With others to add to the mix and. And also to show that we can do electoral politics on our terms. And so often we get captured sometimes by our own limitations of our imaginations, um, or what the establishment says of like how you’re supposed to treat electoral politics. And the lesson for me here is over, which is like not unique to electoral politics is like when we do our politics, On our terms and are brave and courageous and creative and in touch with what we feel in our bases and with our people.

[00:55:34] It’s the right play. Yeah. Um, and so, you know, I think the particular thing that I’m that I want to continue unpacking and I think is a lesson for the field on this is we got to get sharper and tighter and braver at the ballot box. We need a more powerful, um, left electoral apparatus. For the movement that we’re in currently right now, a more powerful, um, like electoral apparatus dedicated to building power in that arena for Palestinian freedom, um, and peace and anti anti war stance, um, and that that means both identifying candidates who are ready to run.

[00:56:17] Um, who are willing to run, you know, everybody knew that Joe Biden was a liability for Democrats in November. Everybody knew, um, that, you know, um, the, you know, Biden’s worst way that president Enemy beating Trump was Biden himself. Yet no one was really standing up to offer a counter as an as a candidate.

[00:56:41] Um, and luckily, we had an issue arena to play in. Um, and we, um, and we use that. And the last thing I’ll sort of say on this front is, that’s also what we’ve seen over and over again, in elections at the local and national level, local, state and national level, is the power of Issues actually being on the ballot and people really being able to directly tie their vote to an issue that they care about and uncommitted showed an interesting way that even if you don’t have a ballot question on the ballot, how do we connect voting to an issue and make that really resonate powerfully for people and the action they’re taking, but also in the public debate and public conversation.

[00:57:27] Cayden Mak: Yeah, for sure. Well, I think, I think what’s interesting too is that like, you know, after, you know, a couple weeks ago when Biden announced he was stepping down, I think that, uh, the mainstream, I don’t think, gave the uncommitted movement enough credit for laying the groundwork for that. Yeah. And I really want to give you all that credit.

[00:57:45] where that credit is due, because I don’t think that, I don’t think that would have happened just because of a bad debate performance. Like, let’s be real, right? Like, having, having a base of democratic voters actually say, like, this guy’s whack, like, we’re not interested, like, really set the foundation for, like, no, we need to actually think about what the next.

[00:58:09] three and a half months are going to look like, um, and what this is actually going to mean. Um, and so given that, knowing that Biden has stepped aside and that Kamala Harris is the presumptive nominee, um, you know, obviously she is a part of this current administration. Um, But, I’m curious how that maybe, I mean, the other thing that has changed is also momentum in the broader democratic base, right, that like, people who are maybe not necessarily super plugged into, uh, the movement for justice for Palestinians are now energized in a way they were not.

[00:58:42] Um. How has this news changed the approach that you all are taking and what kind of leverage do you see our movements having in this moment? 

[00:58:53] Layla Elabed: Um, first of all, I like to, I appreciate you giving us credit. Um, credit where credit is due. Yeah. And, and I think, you know, Joe Biden became, you know, uh, a political liability for the democratic party because of his unwavering support, um, for Israel’s assault on the Gaza.

[00:59:15] And then in turn, losing key states like Michigan, um, and alienating not just Arab and Muslim voters, but anti war voters. Um, and so the parties, you know, attempt to attribute Biden’s exit to like solely because of a, Poor debate performance, I think, overlooks the significant grassroots, um, that our movement has Has built and the and the demand that we’ve had for months.

[00:59:46] Um, so much appreciated We are taking this as a small victory, even though the goal was never to push Uh biden out as the nominee. I think we were able to show Um through our movements that he definitely was a liability to Democrats in this fight against authoritarianism and fascism that we’re going to be dealing with in uh, november Um And you have the second part of your question.

[01:00:16] Um, you know, around V. P. Harris as the presumptive nominee, I think that in some ways, um, uh, V. P. Harris has shown and signaled and messaged, um, that in terms of, um, you know, Empathy that she has for Palestinians and for those of us in the movement here at home, um, is very different from Biden and the Biden administration.

[01:00:49] Um, you know, she talked positively about, um, students, um, do, you know, protesting on, on, uh, During the student encampments, um, she has talked about Palestinian right to self determination. Um, and she’s definitely has been, uh, clearly more, uh, uh, empathetic, uh, than, than Biden in terms of language. But something I want to reiterate that, um, a doctor yesterday had said in one of our press conferences that really has stuck with me is that Palestinian children can’t eat words.

[01:01:32] And words are not going to grow, grow back the limbs of these Palestinian children that have lost them due to, um, Israel’s continuous bombardment, bombardment of Palestinians in Gaza. And so, yes, it is, it is very telling when we have language shifts, um, and messaging shifts. But this has not been a messaging, uh, Issue.

[01:01:59] This has been a funding bombs issue. And so what we need right now, um, in order for, for VP Harris to unite our party, but also have that fighting chance and win over states like Michigan and voters in Michigan. Um, we need her to turn a page away from Biden’s, who has a policy and offer us something that will stop the killing and occupation of Palestinians.

[01:02:28] Cayden Mak: Yeah, for sure. And it also seems like there are things that she could maybe do now as a vice president, um, to intervene on this, uh, that I would love to see. 

[01:02:36] Layla Elabed: Yeah, I would love to see that too, because President Biden is president until January, and I think for those of us, especially like me as a Palestinian, as I’m watching this genocide unfold in front of my phone screen every single day, and just seeing unimaginable things, violence and killing and hearing it too, um, from folks who are at the front lines from like doctors and nurses that are in the Gaza and journalists.

[01:03:09] We can’t wait for another, you know, 186 plus thousand Palestinians to be killed with our tax dollars. 

[01:03:17] Cayden Mak: Eliane, do you also have thoughts about, uh, what kind of leverage our movements have right now? Um, ways that the, uh, Biden stepping aside has changed the way that you’re thinking about this moment. 

[01:03:29] Elianne Farhat: Yeah.

[01:03:30] You know, the one thing, what I’ve been thinking about and then yeah, dive in. You know, Layla often says this, which is the uncommitted movement, was a gift to the Democratic party to, you know, to tell them that we are in danger of losing in November. Um, and, and it takes real courage to be able to do that.

[01:03:53] And a lot of people. At a, you know, step up and step out, um, in Minnesota, in Michigan, in Wisconsin, in Pennsylvania, you know, and, um, and it did actually raise the alarm. Um, and it is like, yeah, very important to understand that and also to understand. That the limits of our power and so I think it’s also like, yes, we had a huge part of sort of opening, opening the door and, and showing in terms that the sort of Democratic Party leadership track most closely, which are votes, um, just how in trouble they are.

[01:04:34] And, you know, it was sort of a note of to me that. At the end of the major, the major push that got us across the finish line, um, to not only a change in candidate, but a tone, a change in tone and orientation on this issue, um, you know, we’re people like, uh, former speaker of the house, Nancy Pelosi. And so as a movement, I think we really have to think about, you know, how, how our demands shift and evolve and change and how do we put together.

[01:05:02] The necessary pieces as we build the power. We need to be the decision makers to get to the point where we are really shifting, um, shifting the power dynamic of the decision making inside the Democratic Party. And what is the electoral powerful electoral apparatus on the left, both within the Democratic Party and beyond it?

[01:05:21] We need to continue to push that and push that change. You know, when I think about the leverage that we have, um, in many ways, everything has changed and nothing has changed. Yeah, something that we really tended to really carefully was to not get caught up in the political horse race of when things started sort of falling.

[01:05:46] Um, and there was a lot of pressure from allies and inside of our own organization of like, should we join the calls for buying the dropout? Should we not? How do we relate to this? Should we have an opinion on who steps up, who the VP pick it, you know, like there’s all this. Pressure, um, to, you know, go outside our lane and we have been really disciplined to stay very focused on our mission as in the uncommitted movement, which is to use, um, to like to use, um, the electoral arena.

[01:06:23] And the lead up to the DNC to exert maximum pressure on current decision makers to deliver a ceasefire and an arms embargo and stop the mass murdering of Palestinian people. That’s what we’re focused on. And so, Everything then that all the decisions that we then make are sort of within that context and in that arena.

[01:06:47] And yes, there is more opening from from Vice President Kamala Harris. Her words have changed and we have not seen a change in action and it is becoming increasingly urgent that See that change because not only do we continue to see the live stream with genocide on our phones in Gaza, we’re seeing escalating violence in the West Bay.

[01:07:09] We’re seeing escalating violence in Lebanon and Syria and Iran. Um, and like war is not a popular position, you know, supporting and continue to prop up a right wing authoritarian Netanyahu regime is not a popular position. And so we urgently need. Yes, Vice President Kamala Harris to come out forcefully on this, but we also need the President of the United States, Joe Biden, who is the person in charge until January 20th to change course urgently.

[01:07:42] Um, because Um, like, the time right is now to do that, the time was yesterday to do that, it was like months ago to do that, and we’re seeing, you know, the forecast of something that could become totally brutal and totally unacceptable, and totally the antithesis of what we’re supposed to stand for as Americans.

[01:08:02] Cayden Mak: Yeah, I think that’s right, and I think the, the shadow of regional war is something that That should worry everybody, really. Um, and I think that like, one of the things that I’m, I’m also interested in in this moment is tracking the way that, um, Harris has perhaps indicated that she may not keep some of the, like, high level foreign policy and defense officials in the Biden administration, which also feels like, it’s like a little tiny baby step towards like that, like, concrete shift that like, you know, if Blinken is out, that’s going to be good.

[01:08:34] Like, hopefully. Hopefully. Um, I don’t know. Yeah, I’m, I’m with you that, like, the fact that she said the word ceasefire feels big, but it’s also just like a tiny drop in a bucket. 

[01:08:46] Elianne Farhat: Yeah. Yeah. And we can’t get distracted. Mm 

[01:08:49] Cayden Mak: hmm. And, 

[01:08:49] Elianne Farhat: yeah, and I do think, sort of, to pick on something you just said there, I mean, yeah, it is It is important that we, as a movement, take the wins when we get 

[01:09:02] Cayden Mak: them, 

[01:09:03] Elianne Farhat: however small they are, um, because they are building towards something different, and so it was, I thought it was totally major that she was, you know, like, was not, was, you know, like, basically firing all the people who had been in charge of this disaster, um, because they should be fired, and it was really, it’s not just, hasn’t been just, like, bad advice and bad policy, It’s like immoral and violating American laws and international laws.

[01:09:30] They should at minimum be 

[01:09:31] Cayden Mak: fired. 

[01:09:32] Elianne Farhat: Yeah, there’s nothing redeemable about like, you know, you got to lose your job for this one. I mean, um, and somebody pretty major sort of losing their job for this one. Um, and so I think that that is very compelling and very important. It’s very important that the rhetoric is changing.

[01:09:49] Um, And yet, we also see rhetoric where it’s not changing, you know, I I noted when she landed, um, in North Carolina for her recent rally after the Israeli attacks in Lebanon and Iran and Syria, you know, she fell back on the language of, um, you know, Israel has a right to defend itself. She named Iran and Iran backed has, um, militias, which is a total reference to Hezbollah.

[01:10:20] And that type of rhetoric is extremely dangerous because it’s exactly the kind of rhetoric. We saw immediately after October 7th, which essentially green light Netanyahu’s regime to expand their war. And so for me, I’m sort of like, it’s canceling out VP. This is canceling things out and we, we need you to follow up with some real meaningful action.

[01:10:42] Um, and we won’t give, we won’t stop the pressure until, until we get it, um, because lives are on the line. Um, and as Layla said, like kids can’t eat words. Words don’t grow back limbs. Um, and, and the conflict is just like increasing and escalating and the horror and the human, the human catastrophe. is getting worse, uh, in unimaginable ways.

[01:11:08] Cayden Mak: Yeah. Um, well, thinking about Harris and sort of where we’re at with her, what can you share about what, um, you’re looking forward to at the Democratic National Convention, who some of the players are, and, and what maybe listeners who are going to be in Chicago can expect, um, and what all of us as observers can expect.

[01:11:32] can, uh, look out for. 

[01:11:36] Layla Elabed: Yeah, I think they’re, um, so some of the things that uncommitted has planned, um, around the DNC is we do have a inside outside strategy. We have these 30 delegates going to the DNC representing, you know, the over 700, 000 uncommitted voters nationwide. Um, and those Uncommitted, uh, voters, uh, will be going to the DNC for the very first time as anti war delegates.

[01:12:07] And the first time in our, in our history, um, to have that. The last time that there was delegates who went Who went to the DNC, not committed to a candidate, was in 1964 with Fannie Lou Hamer’s, um, Mississippi Freedom Bus Party. Uh, and so, we’re in a moment where, yes, we’re small in this pod of, you know, over 4, 000 delegates that are, going to be committed to, uh, V.

[01:12:36] P. Harris. Um, but we’ll be using that time, um, and those spaces to remind folks that there is an ongoing genocide happening and that it is our U. S. policy decisions that support Netanyahu’s war crimes and his right wing government to carry out that agenda. And also reminding the democratic party and those delegates, those VP, uh, VP Harris’s delegates that we, in this moment, we have to unite our base.

[01:13:10] We have to unite the democratic base who right now are fractured over the issue of. The Gaza policy, because 80 percent of Democrats support a permanent ceasefire and 63, somewhere around 63 percent support conditioning, uh, weapons aid to Israel. Um, and I think again, going back to like those key swing states like Michigan, you cannot win your pathway to the White House without states like Michigan.

[01:13:41] Um, so. Those delegates are going to be representing that anti war agenda at the DNC, and then recruiting VP Harris delegates, um, to be ceasefire delegates. So our, our coalition can be even stronger, um, and more visible at the DNC. Uh, and part of that programming includes storytelling and candlelight vigils, um, as well as demands of our delegation, um, that are, um, We want a speaker.

[01:14:14] We demand a speaker at the DNC floor that can speak to the human impact of US policy decisions. Um, and we started a campaign, a petition for that, um, to demand that there be speaking time for Dr. Tanya Haj Hassan, who is a renowned, uh, Pediatric intensive care physician. Um, and also demanding speaking time from one of our leaders of the uncommitted movement or one of our uncommitted delegates to address, uh, DNC delegates.

[01:14:50] Uh, we are also demanding that there be a, that there be platform language, uh, adopted that includes ceasefire and arms embargo. There’s a number of things that are happening on the inside of the DNC. And then on the outside of the DNC, we are kicking off our, not another bombs campaign, um, that Sunday, uh, August 18th.

[01:15:19] Uh, And there’s going to be flat, there are flagships, uh, flagship locations across the country, um, especially in States that had very robust, um, uncommitted campaigns, um, that are, uh, doing rallies and marching, uh, and, um, art builds, uh, to continue pressuring the Biden Harris administration. administration and VP Harris to adopt the demands of our movement to end the killing and occupation of Palestinians.

[01:15:53] Cayden Mak: Y’all staying busy. 

[01:15:54] Elianne Farhat: We’re going to stay busy. I mean, that’s sort of what I was going to say is, you know, conventions are, you know, a little ecosystem. Um, and so who knows what else? Change and, and like, we’re ready, like, we’re getting ready, you know, um, because Yeah, um, there is something in like the pressure cooker of a convention that creates some more opportunities.

[01:16:26] And so we’re, yeah, we’re like, going to organize with our base with delegates who are there with ally delegates, um, to really, you know, identified all the different ways that we can put pressure, um, yeah, put pressure on the moment to, to really win that arms embargo. You know, who knows what else will emerge.

[01:16:46] I think also just like important to know like there are Others who are organizing around this moment. Um, yes that are like like it’s just like so important That it started to almost where this conversation started. It’s like it’s not We need a multitude and a diversity of tactics. Um, and we all can’t do everything.

[01:17:07] And so, you know, the march on the DNC that’s been planned for a long time and really being wanted, um, with, like, with, you know, deep policy and leadership, um, particularly from Chicago. Um, will be an important component of what is moving and putting pressure on the broader ecosystem, the distributed actions, um, and like the continued organizing people are doing, um, from around this issue across the country is really, really important, um, to continue to, like, put that pressure on the administration to deliver, deliver the arms of Argonne Transpire.

[01:17:42] Cayden Mak: Yeah. 

[01:17:43] Elianne Farhat: Yeah. 

[01:17:44] Cayden Mak: Great. I mean, I, I think that, uh, we published a piece by, uh, my friend Brooke Anderson a couple months ago where she was, I, the thing that she wrote was, whatever it is that you do, do that, but for Palestine, um, it’s still, it’s still time for that. So 

[01:18:01] Elianne Farhat: yeah, that’s right. Um, 

[01:18:02] Cayden Mak: if folks listening in, well, first of all, thank you so much for joining me today.

[01:18:06] Again, I know that y’all have your hands full, um, as we’re just a couple weeks away from the DNC. And, um, you know, as, as you rightly point out, this genocide is still being live streamed on our phones. How can listeners who are interested in plugging in with you find out about what’s going on and keep up with your work?

[01:18:27] Um, are there other opportunities for action? That you can point people to today 

[01:18:34] Layla Elabed: Yeah, I would definitely ask folks who want to be plugged in to our movement to visit our social media pages To um, we have we are on tiktok. We’re on instagram Um and also plug into our website Where you can find more information about not another bomb campaign about our day of action on social media Sunday, August 18th and also for folks who are going to the DNC, you may be a delegate and you want to plug in to see, you know, the ceasefire delegate work.

[01:19:08] Um, and you know, make our party even stronger, um, and more united. And there’s information, all of that on our website, um, which is, uh, uncommittedmovement. com. 

[01:19:25] Cayden Mak: We’ll definitely put links in 

[01:19:27] Layla Elabed: the 

[01:19:27] Cayden Mak: chat. 

[01:19:28] Layla Elabed: Yeah. Isn’t that horrible? Um, yes, it is uncommittedmovement. com. Great. 

[01:19:36] Cayden Mak: Um, Awesome. Thank you both again so much.

[01:19:39] Um, and, uh, best of luck at the DNC also, like what a wild time that’s gonna be. 

[01:19:46] Elianne Farhat: Thank you. Yeah.

[01:19:50] Cayden Mak: Thank you as always for joining us this week for Block and Build. If you’ve been enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and a review on the podcast service of your choice. It helps us find new listeners and get in front of the folks who need to hear us. This show is produced by Convergence, a magazine for Radical Insights.

[01:20:06] I’m Cayden Mak, and our producer is Josh Elstro. Editorial assistance was provided this week by Marcy Rein. If you have something to say, please drop me a line. You can send me an email that we’ll consider running on an upcoming Mailbag episode at mailbag at convergencemag. com. And if you’d like to support the work that we do at Convergence, bringing our movements together to strategize

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