Ballot Initiatives as Direct Democracy, with Chris Melody Fields Figueredo

This transcript was automatically generated and may contain minor errors.

[00:00:00] Cayden Mak: Welcome to Block and Build, a podcast from Convergence magazine. I’m your host and the publisher of Convergence, Caden Mock. On this show, we’re building a roadmap for the movement that’s working to block the ascent of authoritarianism while building the influence of a genuinely progressive trend in the broad front that we need to win.

[00:00:28] Before we get started, I want to invite you to join our subscriber program. Convergence Magazine is an independent publication that relies on the generosity of our readers and listeners to create the rigorous and thoughtful takes that you’ve come to expect from us week in and week out. You can become a subscriber at convergencemag.

[00:00:44] com slash donate. Any amount helps, either as a one time donation or recurring monthly or annual subscription. On the show this week, I’m joined live by the Executive Director of the Ballot Initiative Strategy Center, Chris Melody Fields Figuretto, to discuss the critical work that our movements are undertaking this year to move ballot initiatives state by state, and how direct democracy can be a specific antidote to the pandemic.

[00:01:06] to legislative gridlock. Then our print editor, Marcy Ryan, recently interviewed Florida Rising’s campaign director, Ivana Gonzalez, who is helping lead the campaign for Amendment 4 in Florida to restore abortion rights and healthcare access in the state, and to show us what state ballot initiative strategy looks like in action.

[00:01:23] But first, here are some headlines from this week. Just this morning, New York State Supreme Court Justice Juan M. Merchan issued a decision that sentencing in former President Donald Trump’s hush money case will happen after Election Day on November 23rd. I have nothing to say about this. On Wednesday, the Department of Justice named a group of far right online influencers in an indictment of a media company for taking 10 million from Russian state media to influence this year’s election, making this the third presidential cycle in which the DOJ has identified influence operations.

[00:01:57] The influencers themselves, including Tim Pool, Dave Rubin, and Benny Johnson, were not accused of any wrongdoing, but rather the indictment seems to indicate that they were duped into being paid to share viral media content from a fictional French investor who is the assumed laundering front for the two indicted Russian assets.

[00:02:15] The U. S. based media firm that paid the influencers also isn’t named, but reporters from the Associated Press identified Tennessee based Tenet Media as the conduit for the funds based on details contained in the indictment. For what it’s worth, the indictment also mentions that one of these influencers was paid 400, 000 In just one month which is just about what we spend on operations at Convergence every year.

[00:02:41] If you would like to increase that number, again, convergencemag. com slash donate. We gotta go toe to toe with these people. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, who it should be noted, barely escaped being impeached on corruption charges, is seeking to stop voters from participating in democracy by suing a Texas county for daring to engage in GASP, voter outreach.

[00:03:03] Bexar County, Texas, where county commissioners had voted and agreed on a 393, 000 voter outreach program, went ahead earlier this week with their plan to mail voter registration forms to county residents, in spite of the Attorney General’s lawsuit filing for an emergency order. Blocking the registration by mail program.

[00:03:22] Paxton’s up to all kinds of nasty stuff. He also authorized raids on the homes of Latino political and civil rights leaders in Texas. Officers showed up at the homes of elected officials, candidates, and leaders of the League of United Latin American Citizens in the wee hours of the morning, waking them and their families up and ransacking their belongings.

[00:03:39] They seized work phones and computers from some bewildered staffers and volunteers, some of whom are in their 70s and 80s, under vague and far reaching search warrants authorizing the seizure of their electronic devices. This is nothing short of voter intimidation, and it’s consistent with Ken Paxton’s record of fear mongering about voter fraud.

[00:03:58] What LULAC organizers are doing is honestly very standard voter outreach, helping folks get registered, get to their polling places, and understand what they’re voting on. LULAC’s national leadership has also vocally supported its Texas affiliates, saying that they won’t be intimidated, and they’ll do everything they can to support people’s rights to vote this year.

[00:04:18] Meanwhile in Germany, the far right Alternative for Germany party posted some worrying results in state elections in Thuringia and Saxony. They haven’t won a majority and all the other political parties have refused to deal with AFD, meaning it might not be able to form a government and establish governing power in those states.

[00:04:35] The AFD’s national leader has literally been convicted of purposefully employing Nazi rhetoric, so we’ll be watching next year’s German national elections with hopes that lessons from France’s rebuke of the far right will help the vast majority of German society mount a successful campaign against fascism.

[00:04:52] And after another horrific school shooting on Wednesday, this time at Apalachee High School in Georgia, both the 14 year old gunman and his father, who provided the weapon, are being charged with multiple counts of murder and manslaughter. GOP Vice Presidential Candidate J. D. Vance said of the shooting, quote, I don’t like to admit this.

[00:05:11] I don’t like that this is a fact of life. But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets and we have got to bolster security at our schools. Look, contrary to Vance, I believe in a world where this indeed is not a fact of life, because it’s not in almost every other country.

[00:05:29] We can do better. Vance’s comments also do so much all at the same time, so let’s unpack it for a second. Not only does he, one, normalize this kind of senseless violence, He too manages to stigmatize youth who have mental health crises, who by the way are more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators of it.

[00:05:48] And three, he also pushes the narrative that policing and so called hard security are the only ways to create safety in an unsafe world. Let’s be clear. All of this feeds into a narrative of law and order that we know does not make people safer. It feeds the school to prison pipeline, it reduces opportunities for kids to get the care they need, and it does not solve the problem in the first place, which is that weapons of war don’t belong in people’s homes.

[00:06:13] It’s really not that complicated, actually. And with that, man, it’s been a busy news week. But with that I’d really like to welcome my friend and our guest this week, Chris Melody Fields Figueredo to talk about her organization, the Battle Initiative Strategy Center, and the really important work that they’re doing to support direct democracy all across the United States.

[00:06:33] Chris, welcome to Block and Build. Thank you for having me. It is good to see you. Yeah. Could you tell us a little bit about the Battle Initiative Strategy Center what your work is and also how you came to BISC and what your experience has been like there. 

[00:06:49] Yeah. I think folks can think of us as like a bridge organization that really serves to be, Sort of this connection to really amazing groups in the states at the local level, leaders to turn their sort of dreams into reality on policy at the ballot.

[00:07:11] So we, provide training, strategic assistance, research, really all those tools and resources that allow those amazing organizers in those states. States and states all across the country to put these amazing issues that are incredibly popular on the ballot. And, for us, it’s really important not only to put issues on the ballot the progressive issues on the ballot, but really asking the question is who gets to drive that policy, who gets to be there, especially from the beginning and to be the decision maker of what to do.

[00:07:46] That policy potentially looks like especially if we think about equity and what does a more justice oriented policy look like? Often, we know this those of us who, especially from marginalized communities, folks of color, queer folks like you and me Folks with immigrant backgrounds were not included in those decision making places.

[00:08:07] Policy is often not derived from us, right? And yet we are the ones that are most impacted by the policy in government. And it’s so important for us for those grassroots organizations, those leaders, those individuals to be at the center of these ballot measure efforts and really think about how we are disrupting race power and privilege along the way.

[00:08:32] It’s just so fundamentally important. And then how are we also building power? Yes, we can win policy at the ballot. But if we’re also not changing the conditions on the ground, and especially over the last several years as we’ve actually been incredibly successful at the ballot on progressive issues we’re seeing these rising attacks around direct democracy as well.

[00:08:55] It’s so important for us. To really have that people centered, movement centered focus when we think about how we use ballot measures as a tool. And we call it a, we want it to be a tool for liberation. And what does that liberation look like? How I got to BISC, I’m an organizer through and through.

[00:09:14] I’ve spent my career working on advocacy, working for candidate campaigns many moons ago. I’m a, I’m an immigrant kid. I was born in Venezuela. I came to the U. S. at a really early age and I’ve always really described myself as someone in between worlds. 

[00:09:29] Cayden Mak: Neither here 

[00:09:31] nor there, neither from here or there.

[00:09:34] One foot in Venezuela where I was born and one foot in the United States. I’ve always had these questions around what does it mean to be enough, American enough, queer enough Latina enough all of these things. And so that has really been a driving force for me to Create a world where I feel like I belong.

[00:09:54] And that what in that and I like to say You know part of the work that we have to do is one that is worthy and that we deserve and so that really has always drives me in the work that I do is really being similar to what we do at BISC, us being at the centers of power and molding and shaping power.

[00:10:14] And after many years of, working at different nonprofits, working on different political campaigns, what really brought me to BISC was, really seeing. One, an organization grappling with what does it mean to be a racial justice oriented organization and what does it mean to have equity at the center?

[00:10:35] That, that wasn’t really attractive to me, and that’s been a lot of my work throughout my career, but, really having, The p giving people the power and agency to make those decisions and really change the material conditions of li of people’s lives. That was just such a motivating factor for me of getting to be a part of that.

[00:11:01] And I, I. In particular, I love supporting state based orgs I just, it is what we do and it just brought all those things that I really love together and getting to, to be a part of that. Yeah it’s what drove me to come and lead at BISC. 

[00:11:17] Cayden Mak: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me.

[00:11:18] I think, one of the things that we see time and time again is like all of the most exciting work is happening at the state 

[00:11:24] level. 

[00:11:25] Cayden Mak: Yep. Laboratories 

[00:11:26] of Democracy. 

[00:11:27] Cayden Mak: Yeah like it’s also not a coincidence that it’s like at the state level that we see the far right doing their experiments as well.

[00:11:34] And I will also say that like when I was at the road head conference that you all put on this spring, I guess it was technically the spring. I don’t know about that. Like one of the things that really stood out to me, what is it? I don’t know. I know. I don’t understand 

[00:11:50] it. 

[00:11:50] Cayden Mak: It’s getting worse.

[00:11:51] I realized yesterday that we only have nine more Fridays until election day. And I was like, 

[00:11:56] Oh, I never thought about it that way. 

[00:11:58] Cayden Mak: I started, I’m sorry. I’m started thinking about that because we do the pot on Fridays and I was just like, Oh, I, I need to figure out what I’m booking between now and election day.

[00:12:06] So anyway, and aside But one of the things that really stood out to me was thinking about this sort of what you said, this sort of like laboratories of democracy principle, and then also thinking about how with ballot initiatives, people are fired up about this work in a way that they are not necessarily about a candidate anymore.

[00:12:27] I think that it’s fair to say that a lot of voters are, especially the kinds of voters that are like informed about this stuff are like, over candidate, like putting too many eggs in any one candidate’s basket. And I know that you all have also been talking about block and build as a strategy, but can you talk a little bit to how you see ballot initiatives being a crucial part of block and build?

[00:12:53] Yeah, listen, there is, What has happened over and this has been a strategy from the right for decades to absorb and consolidate power right in that is really played out at the state level through a myriad of things like this. gerrymandering front and center which is, using the things like the census as a way to radicalize and not count communities, right?

[00:13:25] It’s all these pieces and that has led to, in, in the states, a lot of Republican trifectas and because of that, We have not been able to see progress on a number of issues that we know are wildly popular to people, regardless of party affiliation, right? And so as power is consolidating, we are moving closer and closer to authoritarianism.

[00:13:52] I think there’s a lot of arguments that, That in many ways, we’re an oligarchy and the that, the wealthy and special interests have much more say in government than we do, the, people it really, came from our partners as, have turned to ballot measures as a way to actually make change in progress.

[00:14:11] And so they’re not only trying to block GOP agendas across the seat, they’re actually building in real time. And it was so important for BISC is not to just be defensive, but actually think about what do we actually want to put on the ballot? What do we want to drive? What is the story and the narrative that we want to build?

[00:14:34] Loretta Ross is a reproductive justice advocate, has said the important talk so much about the importance of hope and to be a driving force. And we can’t just be talking about what we’re against. We have to be talking about what we’re against. What we’re for that actually drives people.

[00:14:52] I think about the last couple of weeks in the last month of these messages around joy and hope that’s about belonging and things that you want to be a part of. That’s what drives us as human beings. And really what we are seeing across the country is, people demanding a different future.

[00:15:09] They are truly demanding a different future. They are saying, no, we don’t want rigged elections. We don’t want a gerrymandered districts. We want Medicaid expansion. We want to raise the minimum wage. We want paid leave. We want reproductive freedom. We want all, these are the things that we want and they’re winning at the battle.

[00:15:28] And so we’re beginning to shape, actually this is the world we want and deserve. And we’re seeing the excitement I would say. Early this year, we’ve seen, we saw this with, talking to our partners and the amount of volunteers they’ve had for the campaigns, for signature gathering, the historic numbers especially around reproductive freedom of turn ins for signatures, 800, 000 in Arizona, that’s one in five Arizona voters.

[00:15:57] Cayden Mak: That’s wild. 

[00:15:59] That is a lot of human beings. 20, 000 in one day in Missouri. I, over 200, 000 in states like Colorado, Nebraska, and Montana. People actually are engaged. They are empowered. They are demanding a different future. They’re volunteering their time. And they are for us, they are already beginning in real time to build the world that they want.

[00:16:26] Even when government right now, is it responsive to them? 

[00:16:32] Cayden Mak: Yeah. I think what’s also really interesting about ballot measures. It’s like one, you’re talking about like passing binding legislation that actually then It needs to happen. And also, while you were talking, it did make me think about my conversations with folks involved in the Uncommitted campaign, in the sense that it’s like, those are numbers that mean something to the sort of stick in the mud people in the political parties as well, that are like, Unwilling to stick their necks out on issues that matter to voters.

[00:17:04] That’s this isn’t a real expression in a language that they can understand. Here’s what we care about we human beings who live in your state and theoretically vote for you, which I find to be incredibly compelling that it’s like, there’s a story that emerges that can emerge from that, that needs to be told about these are the things that actually motivate people to go.

[00:17:27] They motivate people and it’s actually check, checking some stereotypes and stigmatism. If you look at a lot of the states will take reproductive freedom as the central, one of the central issues of the 2024 election. And going back to the block and build, the Supreme court. Nine justices and not nine, all nine, a limited amount of people decided and three people who were appointed by Donald Trump, made the decision to overturn decades of policy around abortion access, right? And the response by the people has been, no, that actually isn’t the world we want to live in, we actually believe overwhelmingly Regardless if I’m a Republican, a Democrat, independent, unaffiliated, whatever, right?

[00:18:17] That actually is not the world I want to live in. And we’ve overwhelmingly, seven of since the Dobbs decision has passed, either it’s blocked, Abortion bans or proactively put in state constitution, the right, rights to abortions that, that is is so fundamentally different and out of touch of the way we see politicians governing.

[00:18:39] And I think, one of the things I think of as the opportunity through ballot measures is a true model around co governance between the people, us, and those of us in representative. and representation to work together, ideally, right? To actually come to, come together to to meet the needs of of the people.

[00:19:01] And I think that is, I think, what gives people hope and inspiration and why I love so much of the work that our partners are in states that often actually do not get Any attention, especially in the presidential election year, states like, uh, Nebraska or Utah. These are states where they’re like people just those flyover states, which I hate that term.

[00:19:25] They just make an assumption of what the people in those states want. It’s actually fundamentally different from what we hear in national or federal policy. 

[00:19:34] Cayden Mak: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s interesting too, because because of the winners take all system of. Our representative democracy, and especially in a presidential election that like.

[00:19:45] One can suppose that Nebraska and Utah, their electoral college votes are going to go to Donald Trump that’s pretty much a lock. But that’s not necessarily a reflection of the nuance and the actual human beings who live there. And The breakdowns of, I think the other thing that is interesting is like a lot of the ballot measure work is state based, but then it’s like ballot measures are also county wide municipal, but there’s like a lot of work that’s being done at these like much more granular levels where people can actually more tangibly build power with one another outside of Yeah, legislative processes, which seems really, yeah.

[00:20:24] I guess the other thing that I wanted to ask you about speaking of states like Utah and Nebraska is like, what are some of the, what are some of the things that like our listeners who might not be aware of this landscape might be surprised to hear about? Especially in this year where it feels like, Okay.

[00:20:40] Everything’s very things seem polarized, things seem intense, things feel very deadlocked in a lot of 

[00:20:46] ways. Yeah, I think what’s exciting let’s start with Utah. A couple years ago they passed a independent redistricting about measure, about independent redistricting commission, and I think y’all are gonna, y’all, So we’re doing this whole series with y’all and Katie from Better Boundaries is going to be part of this.

[00:21:04] So I can’t wait for folks to hear more about their story. But because they were successful that on independent redistricting, which was then legally challenged, the state legislature didn’t want to implement it. They won in the court and just a couple of weeks ago their state legislature referred a measure to the ballot that would essentially allow the state legislature, regardless of what the people voted on.

[00:21:29] to overturn any ballot measure. And even if voters rejected, say the legislature put something on the ballot that the people didn’t want and they rejected it, the legislature could be like, we don’t care what the people want, we can overturn that. I think that’s really important for people to understand, again, like how authoritarianism and fascism show up in many ways across the country.

[00:21:52] And what we have seen in even states, in states like Utah, where that is actually with the people we, as we are organizing and, make passing this progressive policy, there is an opposition that see is watching what we’re doing, and they are not happy with that. And they are doing everything possible.

[00:22:11] to stop that from happening. And they’re doing it in these really technical ways, like in Ohio, the language that they’ve had. So they have another independent redistricting ballot measure that folks in Ohio can vote on this year. The ballot board has really put some inflammatory in, I would say, biased language that would potentially impact whether people vote for this independent redistricting commission, which has been, again, wildly popular in states across the country.

[00:22:41] They’ve done the same thing. And I know that you talked to the folks in Florida, Ivana, about Amendment 4 on the fiscal statement. They’ve put, again, really biased language that will potentially impact. impact whether people in Florida vote yes for reproductive freedom, which we already know is really popular in, in the state.

[00:23:02] And then there’s just some really cool and exciting ballot measures like in Missouri not only are they going to have reproductive freedom, they’re also going to have raising the minimum wage and paid sick. Nebraska is going to have paid sick on the ballot. California is going to have a raising the minimum wage again on the ballot.

[00:23:20] States like Alaska. are also raising have the opportunity to raise the minimum wage and paid sick. Like again, Alaska, Utah, like all of these states in a presidential year, we’re not talking about them, but actually people in those states can have the opportunity to pass progressive policy. One that I’m really excited about, which I know folks in California remember Prop 22 that 2020 that created a different class of workers for like folks like Uber and Lyft drivers.

[00:23:49] They tried to do it in Massachusetts. The union’s organized and now there’s going to be a ballot measure question three on the ballot that is actually going to give the opportunity for Lyft and Uber drivers to organize and join the union. There’s just really cool stuff happening across the country where.

[00:24:07] I think most people think, oh, this is impossible, but actually we’re seeing the organizing happening in states all over to, like I said create a different world that we all want. 

[00:24:19] Cayden Mak: Yeah, I think one of the things that especially that Utah story that, that really highlights and is just how much this was putting the democracy backed in, back into democracy, right?

[00:24:33] That organized people can actually go toe to toe with people who control the sort of like more obvious levers of power. And I guess maybe I should have talked about this at the top of our interview, but One of the things that we are doing this year with you all is putting together this series where folks from the states are going to be writing about their campaigns, talking about the work that they’re doing and really highlighting some of this stuff that I think, a lot of the sort of like mainstream political media is just not covering it at all in ways that like, and certainly not in ways that highlight Like people power aspect, right?

[00:25:09] And I think that if you read mainstream media, I live in California, so we talk about ballot initiatives all the time, the good, the bad, and the ugly. But even the way that sort of like our local mainstream media covers ballot initiatives, it’s like this sort of talk about them, like they come from the ether and nobody really knows.

[00:25:27] Yeah, exactly. And it’s no, this, a lot of this is the direct efforts of organizers. And I think that story really needs to be told. So I’m excited about this series. Because it, it clearly there are a lot of fights that are alive this year across the country that mean a lot to a lot of people.

[00:25:44] Yeah, and I think there’s like really exciting, like in Colorado, like the only Latina reproductive justice organization, a multi entity organization in Colorado is the leader of the reproductive the reproductive freedom ballot measure that is not only going to affirmatively protect the right to an abortion in, into their state constitution, but For those who are part of the reproductive justice and movement know that is not a guarantee to access for people to get this this important medical procedure that actually is not always going to be the case.

[00:26:22] And. They’re going to over, they’re also looking to overturn a ban on on state funding for things like Medicaid where low income workers, that’s incredibly important. In, in states like New York, they’re not just thinking about reproductive rights. They’re thinking about an equal rights amendment.

[00:26:38] And that’s what they’re looking to pass. In New York, that is going to provide protections, not just for reproductive health, but also. Prevent discrimination for LGBTQ plus people too. I think all of these things are just important and serves as a counter narrative when, you turn on the TV and there’s a lot, you started with news at the top, and there’s this so much abysmal things that feel like constantly happening.

[00:27:06] And that is real and that’s important and urgent, that we have to address it. But what I’ve always loved and respected about bowel measures is they’re showing us a new way forward. And I often say it is our opportunity to have love letters to our people. Which I think is this has been for me, the sort of call to action.

[00:27:27] Listening to the work and reading the work of bell hooks of, Of the things in the values that are so central to us as human beings, like love, that is so motivating to folks. And that’s what we seek as human beings. And, When we think about how we center policy around love or joy or hope or belonging or, when we set it around those value sets, actually what we dream up as possible is much more beautiful and proactive.

[00:28:00] Cayden Mak: Yeah. And I think that a lot of the stuff that we’re talking about is stuff that just it just makes sense to people, right? That they the love letter nature of this comes through because it’s just straight up, this shit’s common sense, right? Oh, absolutely. And this is why we’re winning.

[00:28:15] People. The economy is front of mind. Inflation is in front of mind of people who doesn’t want to raise wages and raise the minimum wage. Like that’s just common sense. Like people understand that fundamentally yeah, I need more money. I need to buy groceries. Yeah. I need to put gas in the car.

[00:28:34] That means we got to raise wages across the country. If these corporations aren’t going to do it, if the government isn’t going to do it, then we’re going to do it for ourselves. 

[00:28:43] Cayden Mak: Yeah. I think the last big thing I would love to talk about a little bit is obviously not every state has a really clear process for getting stuff on the ballot.

[00:28:52] And also, one of the complaints about ballot measures. In states like California, is that you talked about Prop 22 and there’s just like an absolutely absurd amount of money that a lot of Silicon Valley companies poured into that ballot measure and successfully getting it passed in spite of a lot of outcry from unions, from community based organizations.

[00:29:12] What are some of the challenges and pitfalls that you’re seeing across the country, both in terms of making ballot initiatives possible for more people and then also Protecting ballot measures from some of the the corrosive dynamics that we’re seeing in the representative parts of our tomorrow.

[00:29:29] Yeah. If you think about the inception, right? The reason why ballot measures were created were to fight corporations, right? Were to fight the railroad barons to fight how the corporations had taken over state legislatures 120 years ago, right? It was an answer to that, right? And. This challenge that we’ve had in states like California is we have seen the corporatization, right?

[00:29:56] In many places of bowel measures where, and that is by, again, nothing happens in a vacuum. Citizen United made it even harder, right? When corporations are people, then they can put issues on the ballot too. Capitalism be capitalism. All the time. All the time. That is a big challenge, right?

[00:30:16] Where we are seeing, it’s been really hard to move forward. For example, environmental justice issues because of Sure. Energy companies, get oil, gas really trying to block these measures. That, that’s a big challenge that we need to address and continue to address. Obviously not every single state has the citizen led process.

[00:30:39] And what we’re seeing more and more is actually more state legislative referrals. To the ballot, Arizona is going to have 13, the most they’ve had in recent memory. 13 legislatively referred ballot measures. States like Kentucky North Carolina. We’ve seen a number of eight states have referred citizen only.

[00:30:59] Ballot measures to the, to, to the ballot. So there’s this challenge that we have right now of how we get issues to the ballot. We’re seeing all these laws introduced to raise the threshold to gather signatures raise the threshold to pass a ballot measure. Those are big challenges that we face and it is because we’re winning.

[00:31:21] So we can’t sit back on election day when we raise the minimum wage and protect reproductive freedom everywhere The work is not over. We’re gonna have to go into state legislative set session and make sure the those measures are Implemented and they are really costly. It is And that is really How politics has become in this country, it just is so incredibly expensive to run any time of Any type of electoral campaign and that’s ballot measures too And you know as they put more of these barriers like some of what they’ve referred in arizona It is actually going to be harder for citizens to put issues to the ballot Because it’s such a high threshold that it’s going to make it even more costly And that’s going to have a huge impact on Whether we actually truly have a citizen led process in many states.

[00:32:14] Cayden Mak: Yeah, could you, quickly for our listeners, talk tell us a little bit about what it means for a legislator, legislature to refer something to the ballot. 

[00:32:25] Yeah, so the legislature could, any state legislature across the country, could refer an amendment to the ballot that which would essentially be an amendment to the state constitution on a host of issues.

[00:32:37] For example in Arizona, Because they have been so progressive organizations have been so successful in the state to pass things like the minimum wage, they’re gonna pass reproductive freedom this year. The state legislature is not happy about that. And so they, they have. voted in the state legislature, put an issue on the ballots before voters in the, in, in the state that will actually increase the amount of signatures that they have to have in, in, in the state.

[00:33:09] They’re doing this all across the Utah was another example. And they’re doing things also in Kentucky, they’re, they refer to about measures that will have a huge impact on the public school education and funding and have fun, allow those funds to be used for private schools so that is how it’s playing out across the country.

[00:33:30] And, what we have seen more and even this year I think there’s. Of the issues, of the initiatives on the ballot, 83 are legislatively referred and only, oh my gosh, I’m gonna forget the number only 34 citizen initiated. That’s a big unbalance right now. 

[00:33:53] Cayden Mak: Yeah. Yeah, it almost seems like it’s trying to sneak a poison pill in there.

[00:33:58] Absolutely. Sometimes we call it ballot candy. They’ll put some stuff that like, seems attractive to voters who are like, ooh for example, in Missouri There’s a rank choice voting ballot measure and I am forgetting the exact addition to that. They’re adding these things to these measures that sort of make it, might make it more attractive for people to vote and they’re actually not going to get the intends.

[00:34:25] for the full impact of what they actually want. 

[00:34:28] Cayden Mak: Yeah. So what I’m hearing is, organizers have their work cut out for them. 

[00:34:32] Always, every day. 365 days a year. That’s 

[00:34:37] Cayden Mak: right. Whether it’s a presidential election year or not. Great. I think I’d love to watch with you some of this interview that with Yvonne Gonzalez, who is the campaigns director at Florida Rising which is Florida’s biggest independent political organization.

[00:34:53] They’re led by their 1, 500 members in 11 counties across the state. And as we talked about a little bit when the state legislature, started passing their abortion ban in 2022, their membership voted to prioritize fighting for abortion access. And Marcy Ryan, who is our print editor spoke to Ivana about the campaign preparing for this series that we’re doing with BISC.

[00:35:16] And so let’s roll, I think it’s about a 12 minute clip, this interview with Ivana, and then we’ll talk a little bit about what she shared about their campaign. 

[00:35:24] Marcy Rein: Awesome. I love it, Vanna. Tell me a little bit about them. What is Amendment 4? What will it do? And who is the entirety of the, sort of the coalition behind it?

[00:35:35] Ivanna Gonzalez: Amendment 4 is a citizen led constitutional amendment that is meant to end government interference in abortion. Florida has a process for citizen led ballot initiatives, which means that we have to collect signatures. The exact number is calculated as a proportion of the total of voters in the presidential election immediately prior to The one that we’re trying to get on the ballot for.

[00:36:03] And so in our case, we had to collect close to 900, 000 validated petitions across the state of Florida with some specifications around like what congressional districts they had to come from, right? So we had to have geographic spread. We ended up collecting over a million validated petitions.

[00:36:23] So we write the bat like citizens, community groups, Like Florida Rising, like Planned Parenthood, the ACLU, we were a part of crafting the initial language that we felt was going to honor the will of the majority of Floridians. We then built an amazing operation to collect over a million petitions.

[00:36:43] We started that petition collection drive in May of 23. We finished qualifying by end of that year, so in December of 23. In February of 2024, we were before the Supreme Court, so that’s the next step in the process. Once you qualify, the Supreme Court has to hear the ballot language and basically they have to approve it for ballot placement.

[00:37:05] That has historically been a rather bureaucratic process. They’re checking to make sure that the proposed ballot language is 75 words long, that it’s not intentionally confusing. And there’s one other requirement that I’m, I’ll remember in just a second. So they’re supposed to do they’re supposed to do a check for these things and it gets placed on the ballot.

[00:37:27] Unsurprisingly, even that process was highly politicized because Florida Supreme Court the Florida Supreme Court is dominated by DeSantis appointees, who has been very clear from the beginning. He was the one responsible for passing these bans in large part. And so we faced an uphill battle, but we had an amazing legal team that knew this issue inside and out and faced a truly unremarkable and unprepared opposition legal team.

[00:37:54] And so we, We really felt like the Supreme Court was in no position to deny the strength of our arguments. That was the case. We ended up getting placed on the ballot and the final step in the ballot initiative process is obviously the vote in November, but before that committee, again, historically, a really bureaucratic process, a committee is meant to write a fiscal impact statement, which is supposed to be a budgetary analysis of the impact Of the ballot initiative, and that gets printed on ballots right below the official ballot language.

[00:38:25] And sadly, DeSantis also intervened in that process and has, and has officially submitted a fiscal impact statement that is basically opposition talking points word for word. And we are more clear than ever that this ballot initiative is about protecting abortion access for upwards of 80, 000 patients in Florida a year, and also about protecting the integrity of democracy.

[00:38:50] Over a million people signed a petition, public opinion polls consistently show how much folks disagree with abortion bans like the kind that Florida has right now. And the interference, the continued interference of government in our personal medical decisions and the democratic process that exist is very much what’s at stake in this election for us with a minute for 

[00:39:13] Marcy Rein: it strikes me as you’re describing all of these obstacles and in assurances that You could look at this possibly as an example of electoral autocracy in practice.

[00:39:25] I wonder if that, is that an accurate characterization? 

[00:39:28] Ivanna Gonzalez: Yeah, I would say so. When you are intervening in systems that are meant to be neutral to the extent that’s possible when humans are involved. And breaking precedent because we do, Florida has a beautiful, rich history of citizen led ballot initiatives and what we’re seeing this round against Amendment 4 to end government interference and abortion is breaking with what has been the process in the past because they’re scared.

[00:39:58] They’re scared and they know that when Floridians have a straight shot to make the decision, they will not side with extreme abortion bans. 

[00:40:08] Marcy Rein: So I know when we talked a little bit ahead of this, we talked about this, very broad and deep work you’re doing, block this right wing attack on reproductive justice through this initiative.

[00:40:22] But you also were talking about the ways that you’re using it to build political frameworks and the technical expertise and infrastructure that. We can use going forward. And I wonder if we could switch gears a little bit to talk about those pieces, maybe starting with your internal political education that you’re when you’re doing 

[00:40:42] Ivanna Gonzalez: so, as I mentioned earlier, our organization has been really focused as a first all a subset of our organization.

[00:40:49] Our membership. We’ve really largely focused on housing justice. And we had this rousing endorsement of, of fighting abortion bans as an organizational priority, like I talked about, but we’d like our staff and a good part of our membership weren’t like deep in this work. Certainly we’re thinking about abortion as this like standalone fight that we have in the quote unquote modern age, but the reality is that the fight for access to abortion is.

[00:41:18] One battle in a long history of reproductive oppression for us. I think this has been an amazing opportunity to do deeper political education with with our members and with our staff about how reproductive coercion and reproductive oppression has been used against black communities, Latino communities, immigrants, and indigenous communities in this country, right?

[00:41:43] It was controlling the reproductive lives of slaves in the South, right? During slavery. And then it was and then it was eugenics against people with disabilities or eugenics against the women on the island of Puerto Rico, which is itself a colony. And then we’re coming into this era.

[00:42:01] Where the battlefield is abortion access, but it doesn’t stand alone. It’s just another, it’s just another phase of a long fight to, to protect the bodily autonomy of women, of people who don’t conform to the standards that society deems acceptable and normal. And so being able to go that deep so that folks see the ways that.

[00:42:25] Our fight for housing justice, our fight for climate, our fights for criminal systems reform are all tightly bound together with this vision of reproductive justice that this campaign is centering. I think that political education is what turns what could be a large scale transactional electoral campaign into something that.

[00:42:49] transforms a movement and transforms individuals, deepens our commitment to this tightly connected movement where you may have come in because you cared about your rent being too high and you may have joined our movement because you were, Devastated by the impact of climate change and how every hurricane that comes is destroying communities and getting rebuilt for the wealthy and not for the people who have been there for generations.

[00:43:19] One 

[00:43:19] Marcy Rein: other question, which you have mentioned initiatives and an opportunity for co governance, which I thought was really fascinating. There may be another other things that you think it’s really important for. People who are listening and reading to know about, so leaves the last bit of time open for you to either talk about that or talk about whatever seems Really significant that we are, 

[00:43:48] Ivanna Gonzalez: I, as someone who has spent a good amount of time thinking about how we get people engaged and excited in our democracy and in governing one of the biggest hurdles that I think I’ve encountered is breaking past the, I think I’m pretty, pretty insidious idea that our civic duty is to vote because yes we have a civic duty.

[00:44:11] We have a right to vote. But the reality is that voting doesn’t get you all the way. Voting is one tactic in a toolbox, and so we need to think a little bit more broadly. We have to think about the year round strategies that get us to a place where government is run by us and therefore serving us as well.

[00:44:30] And so what I think is amazing about the pathway for constitutional citizen led ballot initiatives in the state of Florida is they’re an opportunity for. For direct democracy, so that we’re in the direct democracy phase. We organized ourselves to write this ballot language to collect over a million petitions.

[00:44:48] We’re building this like amazing volunteer infrastructure to talk to as many people as we can. We’re going to be running this paid ad campaign that’s going to be launching soon. And then on the other side of that, there’s an opportunity. To then come from a place of power because we’re going to have won 60 percent of the vote in November to a conversation with potentially a city council member about the crisis pregnancy center that that lives in our city and is actively misinforming people about their reproductive rights and their reproductive options.

[00:45:19] And so there’s going to obviously be big fights about abortion access, but there’s so much nested under that brings us a little bit closer to this vision of reproductive justice. And so it ties a little bit back to your question about implementation, right? We’re going to have to, all of these now outdated laws are going to have to come off the books.

[00:45:36] We’re going to have to defend people who are trying to access care. Absolutely. That will come and there’s going to be all of these other opportunities to, as the to use this language of co governance to work closely with elected officials at other levels of government to like, say, we heard the will of the people, here’s an opportunity to make that real right here in our own back.

[00:45:58] Marcy Rein: Thank you so much. Is there a little bit more that you would like to say? Is there something else that we need to have in our picture, understand about the work that you’re doing, the context you’re doing it in? 

[00:46:12] Ivanna Gonzalez: Yeah, absolutely. I want to name the incredible leadership team of the Yes on 4 campaign.

[00:46:17] Florida Rising has been honored to be at the table with the ACLU of Florida, with Planned Parenthood, with the Florida Women’s Freedom Coalition, with Women’s Voices of Florida, and with SEIU 1199. So we’ve got this beautiful leadership coalition in addition to hundreds of women Organizational endorsements that really run the gamut of issue area and community focus and hundreds of medical providers who have also endorsed our campaign.

[00:46:48] And it really has required the small contribution of every single individual, every single organization to get us as far as we have. Winning a ballot initiative in the state of Florida is a, an intentionally gargantuan task that our legislature is trying to make harder and harder because they know That when we get a direct say we oftentimes move against the kinds of policy agendas that they’re moving in Tallahassee.

[00:47:12] Thank you so much. Yeah, thanks for having me, Marcy. 

[00:47:17] Cayden Mak: That was fantastic. I was watching both of us. In the back end of our streaming service, just being like yeah, that’s so much the stuff that I thought I was saying are there things that you, Chris want to follow up on or pick out of that interview just to like highlight?

[00:47:33] Or things that sparked for you about, especially, I, obviously you work with Florida Rising and I mean have some deep knowledge of this campaign. First of 

[00:47:42] all, Ivana is a fellow Venezuela, so I’m totally here for that. I think one of the things that people really know need to know.

[00:47:53] And to what she was speaking about of the organizing that has been built, the organizing infrastructure that has been built in Florida at organizations like Florida Rising is really has been through the ballot measure process. The amendment for in 2018 to restore voting rights, to returning citizens, to formerly incarcerated people, some of the same organizations in the coalition that One in 2018 is that same coalition that is now fighting for amendment for now in 2024 for reproductive justice.

[00:48:27] And so just as they were all in for reproductive for voting rights in 2018, they’re all in for reproductive justice. And they took a lot of the lessons. Since they learned in 2018 around the legal battles of what it’s going to take to build the field operations like that, because that coalition was so strong, they have been able to just continue to build power and work together And that is actually, I think, one of the things people forget about is what can be built through ballot measures is coalitions that last beyond that particular campaign that then can go turn around and do something in a state legislature together or then work together to run another ballot measure.

[00:49:09] I think that’s something that is so cool about what they’ve been able to do in Florida. 

[00:49:15] Cayden Mak: Yeah, no, that feels huge. Cause it’s, it really points to the fact that it points, it’s like points to a pathway to building real independent political organizations, which seems incredibly important right now.

[00:49:26] Yeah, exactly. 

[00:49:30] Cayden Mak: Great. As we wrap up our conversation do you want to share anything with our listeners that has been keeping you fired up, especially now that we are, inside of 60 days before election day, yikes. 

[00:49:42] Oh, yeah. Yikes. What always keeps me fired up is young people.

[00:49:47] I just see the the commitment and folks, I have a badass 16 year old daughter and the student activism that I’ve seen. seen over this last year around college campuses and in high schools too around Palestine. Like that just gives me so much hope of what’s possible in the next generation of organizers we’re building right now gives me a ton of hope and.

[00:50:15] just always gets me really fired up when I am trying to listen to other things that are connected to politics, but also have pop pop culture. One of my favorite podcasts is vibe check. I highly recommend it to other folks, three black queer folks a poet Jones a producer and former um, former journalist I guess always journalist but it’s been a Broadway play producer, Zach Stafford, and then some folks who probably know a lot from in his NPR days Sam Sanders.

[00:50:46] They’re, it’s they take the group chat to the podcast, and it’s just so much fun. Every time I laugh so hard, every single time, even when they’re talking about really hard things like grief, like it’s, I don’t know, it just always gets my vibe right every week. And I highly recommend folks just who want to do analysis that also like understands pop culture.

[00:51:10] Amazing. Yeah. 

[00:51:11] Cayden Mak: Yeah. I’m pop culture is so important. I feel like it’s a lot of times we’re like, ah, we’re doing serious politics, but serious politics also happens. Out there in the culture. So it does. That’s amazing. Also, if people want to follow the work that y’all are doing at the Battle Initiative Strategy Center, obviously, check out Chris’s piece that is up on Convergence now over the next several weeks.

[00:51:34] We will be publishing some additional pieces in that series, highlighting work at the state level. But where else can people find you all and your work? 

[00:51:42] On all social medias, you can find us at that’s ballot strategy. Our website is ballot. org if you really want to nerd out and learn more about ballot measures, we have a ballot measure hub where you can find all the things and but at ballot strategy and ballot.

[00:51:59] org, we try to keep it super easy and simple. 

[00:52:03] Cayden Mak: Awesome. Chris, it was really great talking to you. I’m so excited that we are doing this publishing project together because this is exactly our bread and butter. And it’s a delight as always to see you. 

[00:52:13] So good to see you, Caden. Thanks for having me.

[00:52:17] Cayden Mak: Of course, anytime. This show is published by Convergence, a magazine for Radical Insights. I’m Caden Mock, and our producer is Josh Elstro. Editorial and production assistance this week was also provided by Marcy Ryan. If you have something to say, you can drop me a line. You can send me an email that we’ll consider running on an upcoming Mailbag episode at mailbag at convergencemag.

[00:52:39] com. If you’d like to support the work that we do at Convergence, bringing our movements together to strategize, struggle, and win in this crucial historical moment, you can become a member at convergencemag. com slash donate. Even a few bucks a month goes a long way to making sure that our independent small team can continue to build a map for our movement.

[00:52:57] I hope this helps.