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As Goes North Carolina, So Goes the Nation, with Serena Sebring

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As Goes North Carolina, So Goes the Nation, with Serena Sebring
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The South remains the epicenter in the fight for freedom and equality in the US, and North Carolina specifically has been a site of fierce battles between authoritarians attempting to capture state government and communities defending the democratic process. Scot and Sue are joined by Serena Sebring, Executive Director of Blueprint NC, an organization helping to lead the charge against these authoritarians. How has North Carolina historically and presently been a battleground for democracy, what are real threats that we must acknowledge and navigate, and what are victories and stories of hope that the rest of the country can learn from?

Guest Bio

Serena Sebring is a queer Black feminist, mother, organizer, educator, and the Executive Director of Blueprint NC. Serena also served as the Regional Organizing Lead for Southerners on New Ground and taught at North Carolina State University. Blueprint NC is one of the country’s premier people-power organizations that is working toward inclusive and anti-racist democracy rooted in civic engagement through movement building and mobilization.

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This transcript was automatically generated and may contain minor errors.

[00:00:00] Sound on Tape: This podcast is presented by Convergence, a magazine 

[00:00:04] Sue Hyde: for radical insights. 

[00:00:07] Serena Sebring: And every time we think about how we keep us safe, it’s also important to recognize what we are doing. It’s building self determination of communities. We are saying that we are the ones that we’ve been waiting for. And what I see in this year is North Carolinians

[00:00:45] Scot Nakagawa: Welcome to the Anti Authoritarian Podcast, a project of the 22nd Century Initiative. I’m Scott Nakagawa, one of your hosts. 

[00:00:52] Sue Hyde: Hello friends, I’m co host Sue Hyde. Scott and I first joined forces about 30 years ago to help defeat anti LGBTQ ballot measures proposed by Christian authoritarian groups. 

[00:01:05] Scot Nakagawa: It was as true then as it is now that those of us who believe in democracy make up a supermajority of people in this country.

[00:01:13] The challenge is, how do we go from being the majority to acting like the majority? 

[00:01:17] Sue Hyde: We dig into strategy questions like these and prescriptions for change. We talk with expert guests and commentators whose scholarship, political activism, and organizing Define the cutting edge of anti authoritarian resistance.

[00:01:33] Thank you for joining us.

[00:01:40] Scot Nakagawa: W. E. B. Du Bois famously said, as the South goes, so goes the nation. The American South remains the epicenter of the battle for freedom and equality in this country even to this day. With the North Carolina Republican Party attempting to win a prize for being the most MAGA in the country, the movement to win multiracial democracy is rising in response.

[00:02:02] Sue Hyde: In this episode, Serena Sebring, Executive Director of Blueprint North Carolina, joins us to talk about the movement in North Carolina and what it means for all of us. Prior to Blueprint NC, Serena served as the regional organizing lead for Southerners on New Ground and taught at North Carolina State University.

[00:02:26] Blueprint North Carolina is one of the country’s premier people powered organizations that is working towards inclusive and anti racist democracy rooted in civil engagement through movement building and mobilization. Thank you for joining us, Serena. 

[00:02:42] Serena Sebring: Thanks so much for having me. 

[00:02:44] Scot Nakagawa: Now You’re from North Carolina, your organization is based there, and North Carolina is a state where Republicans and authoritarians have worked overtime to maintain minority rule.

[00:02:53] Minority rule, which is, of course, the goal of authoritarians. While North Carolina has a Democratic registration majority which has led to Democratic victories for governor and other statewide offices its legislature is dominated by Republicans. And that’s thanks, in part, to anti democratic republican gerrymandering.

[00:03:14] By gerrymandering, the GOP has managed to take control of the state legislature, as I said. And to wreak havoc in North Carolina politics. You updated your logo, in fact, to recognize this political movement. What does, quote, North Carolina Now 2024 mean? And why is North Carolina so critical this year?

[00:03:39] Serena Sebring: Thanks so much, Scott. Yeah I think that North Carolina is absolutely where the eyes of the nation are right now. We often see that North Carolina is considered a swing state. Another interesting fact about elections in North Carolina is that oftentimes we don’t see we’ll see a split ticket where the presidential vote will go one way.

[00:04:02] And the gubernatorial vote will go another for this reason. I think that there’s a lot of attention specifically to this governor’s race. There’s also a lot on the line right now. We are in this state holding off a total abortion ban. Simply because of the veto of our governor who will not stay in office going forward.

[00:04:25] The other thing that’s really at play here is our schools and whether or not they teach an accurate and truthful version of history. Or whether our classrooms are safe and welcoming places for LGBTQ young people, as well as educators. These issues are absolutely all up and down the ballot in our state.

[00:04:45] Including right at the top. I think this is also a really important time for our state because too often in southern analyses of what’s going on in the nation in presidential years, North Carolina, though watched as a swing state, isn’t taken as seriously. And I think it’s really an opportunity.

[00:05:06] For us to own what is the history, the rich and vibrant history of civil rights and voter protection organizing democracy, organizing here in our state, as well as to own some of the most long running challenges to an anti racist and inclusive democracy, which are also. Rooted here in North Carolina, many folks are not aware that there is actually a history of one successful coup on American soil in response to a multiracial and inclusive democratic movement.

[00:05:39] And that is here in North Carolina, where in 1898, we saw a massacre in Wilmington. Where a red shirted militia violently overthrew the progress of what was very much a hopeful and visionary multiracial movement that was forming. That moment in history is important in a time when we are asking ourselves, what does political violence look like in an election year at following on the heels of the insurrection in 2021?

[00:06:11] Thank you. North Carolina is no newcomer to that. North Carolina is also no newcomer to a history of racist and violent voter suppression efforts. We have seen for many years, including up until the present day, some of the most old fashioned terror based racial mechanisms to really discourage people of color, black people in particular, from voting.

[00:06:36] But those efforts have specific bearing on some key populations that folks should be watching as this year proceeds, one of them being rural black voters. And I think that demographic often is not spoken about but the truth is that most of our state is rural and that many times we mistake a conversation about rural voting.

[00:06:58] For a conversation about white voting and the demographics as well as this year’s election in North Carolina will require us to think differently about that. And if we do, I think we have an opportunity to also yield the benefit of folks who have been for generations doing whatever it took to access the democracy that was available and folks who are For for many generations and decades prepared to meet a moment like this, whereas many folks are just catching up in the national news and the narrative about democracy nationally.

[00:07:36] In our state, the question of who can access the vote, of what the risk of political violence is something that our communities have been struggling with. Steeped in and problem solving around for generations. And this year, I think the whole nation has an opportunity to hear from the wisdom of those communities and to watch as we turn the tide back against an authoritarian and fascist threat facing our state.

[00:08:04] Sound on Tape: Hello, I’m Marcy Ryan and I’m the print editor for Convergence. If you’re enjoying this show like I am, I hope you’ll consider subscribing to Convergence. We’re a small, independent operation and rely heavily on our readers and listeners, like you, to support our work. You can become a subscriber at convergencemag.

[00:08:21] com slash donate. You’ll find a direct link in the show notes. Subscriptions start at just 10 a month, or you can make a one time donation of any amount. At any donation level, know that you’re helping to build a better media system, one that supports people’s movements and fights fascism. But at 10 monthly and above, you’ll have access to exclusive content and events.

[00:08:42] If you can’t afford anything right now, don’t worry. Our shows and print content will continue to be free for you to enjoy. You can also help by leaving us a positive review or sharing this episode with a comrade, a friend, or a family member. Thank you so much for listening.

[00:09:04] Sue Hyde: Let’s talk a little bit about the governor’s race in 2024. You’ve got this guy, Mark Robinson, he’s a Hitler quoting male supremacist GOP candidate for governor in your state. He’s called. Trans, gay, and LGBTQ people filth, and he’s leading in the polls, I believe. Yikes! Tell us a little bit about what organizers are doing to make new meaning, to reject MAGA, and to embrace multiracial democracy in the context of that particular race.

[00:09:44] Serena Sebring: Sure. What I’m seeing all over the 100 counties of our state is courage and dedication to really lifting up the issues and the conditions that are most important to our people in the face of what is widespread hateful rhetoric that is focused primarily on LGBTQ communities, as well as children in schools.

[00:10:09] What we see is a rise up of parents. who are who are standing for their children’s right to learn actual history of people who are aligned across gender as a spectrum to stand up for reproductive rights, to stand up for the access to abortion care that our people very much need and deserve and fought for.

[00:10:31] We’re also seeing Folks who are from all walks of life, not just lawyers and advocates, but everyday North Carolinians having a stake in democracy, knowing that it will take each one of us to come out, to bring folks out to the polls, as well as to keep an eye on our communities about the conditions of political violence, threats and extremism that we’re seeing.

[00:10:57] We are seeing North Carolinians take two giant steps forward when it would be very easy to fall back or into isolationism or factions. And so I think that North Carolina should be what folks are watching in a time with democracy on the line, because the example of the communities that I’m seeing organized by our partners is great.

[00:11:21] Sue Hyde: And I just wonder if you could expand a little bit on ways in which LGBTQ people are perhaps in the leadership or taking the lead or, and, or are being included by folks across the pro democracy spectrum. 

[00:11:42] Serena Sebring: I think we’re in a really important moment in our state for LGBTQ leadership. And as a queer, black, lesbian myself, I know that nobody ever opened the door for us.

[00:11:54] We put our foot in and then we open it for the ones who are coming after us. And I have a great deal of gratitude to the folks who held that door for me as the state C3 convening body, I’m honored to sit alongside our C3 convening. for partners who are gathered by another black lesbian leader of our America Votes table in this time.

[00:12:17] I don’t think that there’s ever been a moment in North Carolina’s organizing history and infrastructure history when we have seen so much specifically black queer and trans leadership at the helm, not just of the state infrastructure, but also many of our partner organizations. This is really important to those of us who came up fighting against bans on gay marriage, fighting against bathroom mandates that sought to keep us out of public spaces and in the closet.

[00:12:47] This is our time. This is also what we mean when we say North Carolina, now it is our time. Ours, those of us who have for too long had to wait for other folks to do what was right, rather than stepping into the center of the ring and being ready to fight for our future and for our children’s future, for our families and our communities.

[00:13:12] This is an unprecedented time in our history, and it’s so important that it’s happening now when we have the kind of threats that we’re seeing. And just to be clear, these threats are not just narrative threats. I’m not talking about metaphorical threats. I’m talking very specifically about bomb threats.

[00:13:32] I’m talking about the threats of terrorism that can take out power for an entire community. Over multiple days, the threats are real and the need for leadership that is informed by these specific identities and communities is more important than ever and I’m proud to be a part of it. 

[00:13:53] Scot Nakagawa: We’re glad you’re a part of it, Serena.

[00:13:55] You mentioned. Taking out power for days for those in our audience who don’t remember it on December 3, 2022. That happened in North Carolina in Moore County. Two electrical stations were sabotaged and plunged more county into darkness for days at a time. 45, 000 people live there. So Blueprint North Carolina put out a report in response to it called Sunrise or Lights Out to review this incident and its outcome.

[00:14:24] So what’s your advice about stopping these kinds of attacks? What should we know from the report? 

[00:14:31] Serena Sebring: So important that we continue to lift this story up. I think that there’s there’s not enough awareness of its continuing cliffhanger ending. We don’t know who is responsible. There have been no suspects.

[00:14:45] There have been no motives officially identified. And what you said is true for four days in the middle of December power to 45, 000 households was out in Moore County, North Carolina. This followed a controversy, a local controversy about a drag show where we saw extremists going head to head with drag queens about the question of.

[00:15:11] Who was safe and who was a threat? Unfortunately, on the night of that drag show, which did go forward in the middle of it, the power went out and it didn’t just go out for the theater where the drag show was happening. But in fact, for all the residents of this county. I had the opportunity to go to Moore County the day after the lights went out.

[00:15:34] And what I saw was like nothing I could have imagined. It was an entire community with no traffic lights, no one directing traffic, no easily identifiable signs of where you could go to get food or water. And this is really important to understand in a rural community, water itself is dependent on electricity for many households who use well water as their main mechanism for bringing in water to their households.

[00:16:05] I think that anybody who’s ever had the power go out in their house knows that you only have two or three days before all the food in your refrigerator is bad. And for most of us, we don’t have to think about what some residents of Moore County did, which was the life and death questions of whether their medical equipment could function.

[00:16:25] On the generators that they had available. And in fact, people did die as recently as August of last year, there was a homicide that was ruled from 1 of the deaths that happened during the days that the power was out in more county. There was a kind of abandonment of the people of this county that I think is important as part of this story.

[00:16:50] We first saw a controversy about a drag show and it wasn’t just drag performers or people who wanted to attend that show who paid the price for this domestic terrorism. It was in fact residents who’d never heard of a drag show, who didn’t have any feelings about whether it should go on, who themselves Their children and their parents face sometimes life and death consequences behind this act.

[00:17:18] Scot Nakagawa: When it first happened, Serena, I immediately thought of the Turner Diaries, which is a 1978 novel by a man named William Pierce, who was a white nationalist, actually the founder of something called the National Alliance, which was an early white nationalist group. The novel, which came out, as I said in 1978, describes the kind of nightmare scenario in which neo-Nazis take over.

[00:17:42] And among the things they do is to sabotage basic infrastructure. And of course, when the lights went out, that immediately came to my mind. And I think that whether we can pin this on white nationalists or not, the reality is that it’s a, kind of thing that is in the playbook of some violent white nationalist groups.

[00:18:01] And so I’m so glad that you’re actually addressing and responding to it and getting people organized. 

[00:18:06] Serena Sebring: Thank you. I think that this connection that you just made is really important for folks to understand. There is an ideology of an extremist ideology of accelerationism that has its roots exactly in the kinds of documents like the Turner Diaries that you’re And accelerationists have been active and training in pockets of North Carolina for some time, but specifically after the insurrection of 2021.

[00:18:35] We have watched an elevation of that narrative. This question of what happens to white people, the white population and when the S hits the fan, as they say, And the answer to that for many white supremacists and extremist groups that we’re following has been that they want to get out ahead first.

[00:18:56] They want to cause chaos because it gives them an even more powerful place to, to fight this war that they understand themselves in. And so I think the importance of it is that while we might have questions about what happened in our county, We understand that attacks on substations are a strategy that is a decade old, that is identified with accelerationists who have, in fact, created a whole handbook for each other about how to easily take out these substations.

[00:19:28] And we’ve seen both in this area and others that this is what is behind the attacks on the power grid. And it’s so important that if The if the law enforcement will not identify this as a threat, a domestic terrorist threat, we people in communities have to do our own work of identifying the sources of threat so that we can take care of ourselves.

[00:19:55] Sue Hyde: Wow, Serena. That is such an important story. Going back to W. E. B. Dubois, who said, as the South goes, so goes the nation. We know that the authoritarian movement regards this as true, and so do we. From your perspective what’s the good news coming out of the South right now?

[00:20:22] What’s happening on the ground that’s giving you hope? 

[00:20:26] Serena Sebring: The good news coming out of the South has always been organizing, and it is today. I’m so honored to support Blueprint’s 86 partners in doing what it takes to beat this moment, which Is not just vote. We must vote. We must turn people out to vote.

[00:20:45] And we also have to figure out how do we keep ourselves safe while we do that. So we have had the opportunity working with our partners to train hundreds of people in all 100 counties of North Carolina on deescalation on bystander intervention. To map the threats to safety and security, as well as democracy, county by county, at a very granular level, and to be able to put together a people’s landscape so that we see not just where those threats are, but where we have strengths, where we have assets, so that we can continue to build those as we think about what it, what are the likely and the most severe scenarios that we.

[00:21:27] Anticipate facing both leading up to 2024 November election and beyond and every time we think about how we keep us safe, it’s also important to recognize what we are doing. It’s building self determination of communities. We are saying that we are the ones that we’ve been waiting for. And what I see in this year is North Carolinians organizing and saying that we will meet that moment.

[00:22:00] Scot Nakagawa: This podcast is presented by the 22nd Century Initiative, a hub for strategy and action for frontline activists, national leaders, and people like you. 

[00:22:10] Sue Hyde: At 22ci. org, you can sign up for our newsletter, you can learn from our anti authoritarian playbook, which includes resources, on how to block rising authoritarianism, bridge across the multiracial majority, and build an inclusive pro democracy movement in your community.

[00:22:30] In some ways, North Carolina has been identified as an epicenter of state capture by the MAGA movement, and folks in other states are also facing this reality or this possibility in their, for them. What would you share with people in other states who might be grappling with an outcome like that?

[00:22:56] Serena Sebring: I think it’s important. That folks in other states learn about how to push past a climate of fear. I think that one of the biggest challenges we faced early on as we were building out our safety and security work was that people said, if we talk about the threats to democracy, we might run the risk of suppressing both.

[00:23:21] And so the wisdom, the existing wisdom was don’t talk about potential threats because we don’t want to turn people off from democracy. And I think that the conversations that we had as they developed began to reveal a much deeper truth, which is that this democracy, this anti racist and inclusive democracy that we are building here is the answer to those threats.

[00:23:47] We don’t encourage people into voting by not telling the truth. This is at the fundamental agreement of the social contract, if you will, that when we come together and express what is really the common good, the shared good, that we can find the collective best answers to those. And for that, We gotta tell the truth.

[00:24:12] For that, we cannot shy away from what is scary because we need all of us to participate in order to resolve a problem that is bigger than any one of us. 

[00:24:22] Scot Nakagawa: Thank you for that. Serena, you know that I consider you a teacher and a guide. Your clarity is just stunning. I really appreciate your spending this time with us.

[00:24:34] Can you tell us how people can get involved in Blueprint North Carolina? 

[00:24:39] Serena Sebring: Yes, you can find us on the World Wide Web at blueprintnc. org. You can find our email for how to get in touch with us, and I would encourage you to do if you’re in North Carolina and you have an organization that wants to join Team Justice, find us.

[00:24:55] And if you want to support that work, we need your support now more than ever. Please do. And thank you so much. 

[00:25:02] Scot Nakagawa: For our listeners you can find information to get in contact with Blueprint North Carolina in the show notes. 

[00:25:09] Sue Hyde: Thank you, Serena. 

[00:25:10] Scot Nakagawa: Yes, thank you. 

[00:25:12] Serena Sebring: Thank you.

[00:25:23] Sue Hyde: Hey, thanks again for listening. Find more episodes of the Anti Authoritarian Podcast on all of your favorite platforms, and also at 22ci. org and convergencemag. org. Direct links to these and other resources referenced in this episode are in the show notes.

[00:25:49] Sound on Tape: The Anti Authoritarian Podcast is created by the 22nd Century Initiative and published by Conversions Magazine. Our theme music is After the Revolution by Carsey Blanton and is licensed under Creative Commons. The show is hosted by Scott Nawa and Sue Hyde. Executive producers are James, mom and Tony Esberg.

[00:26:08] Our producer is Josh Stro and Yong Chan Miller is our production assistant.

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